Episode 7: The Values That Shape Our Work - Part 2

Stewardship is often defined as care. But care for what and for whom? In our work, stewardship is about relationship. It's about understanding the history of this land, who's been allowed to care for it, and how we show up differently now. Centering reciprocity, repair, and long-term responsibility.

Joining us today is Shane Milne, our forest planning supervisor, who supervises a small group of foresters responsible for the planning of forest treatments. Thank you so much for being here.

Glad to be here. Can you tell me a little bit about what you do and the role that stewardship plays in what you do?

Yeah, I'm in the forestry workgroup at Parks and Open Space and I'm currently the planning supervisor. Collecting data to inform our forestry treatments. Stewardship, I mean, is an everyday thing in this job. The definition you gave was very robust. I often think of it in more simple terms as taking care of something that's been entrusted to you so that it can be there in the future. And of course, at Parks and Open Space, you know, what's been entrusted to us is the land and all the resources that occupy the land. So agricultural resources, cultural resources, as well as natural resources.

When I think of stewardship, for me, it's about responsibility and accountability. So a responsibility to understand those resources, you know, in the case of land stewardship or environmental stewardship. It's important to know the processes that drive those ecosystems and that make them get to a balanced point or a point where they can sustain themselves. There's also a responsibility to understand humans' impacts on those processes and how we've maybe changed that balance in a way. And then there's a responsibility, of course, to the resources themselves, Boulder County residents that entrust us with the management of those resources. And then, you know, the future generations to make sure that they benefit in the same way from these resources that current generations do. So I guess that's kind of the two themes that really come up for me when we're talking about stewardship.

Thank you so much for that. And I think what I really heard is about responsibility and accountability as it pertains to stewardship. And I think that that theme in particular is really, really key. Can you talk about an example, how in your work you've practiced stewardship in your work and what made that moment significant?

Ever since I've been at Parks, you know, a big focus has been restoring our lower elevation ponderosa pine forests to get them back in balance. For over 100 years, we've kind of practiced this fire suppression mentality in those lower elevation forests. You know, we've learned what that has led to, which is overly dense forests, which are more prone to catastrophic wildfire events. So a lot of work that, you know, our agency and other agencies are doing in that ecosystem is to try to get it back to that more historic structure of pre-settlement forests, where fire was a natural part of that ecosystem and helped maintain that balance. So you can see examples of that at several of our parks in the lower montane, Walker Ranch, Petasso, Heil Valley Ranch, as well as Hall Ranch, where we spend a lot of time and money trying to restore those ecosystems. So that's a big one that we've been involved with.

Personally, one of my favorite ones that we're doing right now is focusing a lot more attention on a single species in our forests, and that is a limber pine. In Boulder County, a species of special concern because of its high ecological value and several threats that are facing it, threats that, I guess, in the long term threaten the persistence of that species on the landscape. So we've created a conservation and recovery plan for limber pine, and it outlines all the ecological importance of the species and all the threats that are impacting it, as well as actual conservation actions that we can take to help maintain this species on the landscape so that it's here for a long, long time. That's kind of been a different focus for us. We don't usually work in the environments where limber pine is a major component, and so we've kind of shifted our focus and are spending a little bit more time in that area.

So I'm not familiar with limber pines, and you use the terms high ecological value. For me, maybe for our listeners, can you define what that is and what that looks like?

Yeah, so limber pine is an amazing, very unique species in our forests. It's one that can grow across a wide elevational gradient, so you can find it at lower tree line, you can find it at upper tree line. In those higher elevation environments, it occupies sites a lot of times that other trees can't. And so it's in those high elevation environments where limber pine exists that it really kind of reaches its ecological highest value. So maybe you've heard the term keystone species. So in those high elevation environments, it's kind of the linchpin in holding those systems in balance, providing food for birds and small mammals, providing habitat for those species as well, as well as soil erosion control, water melt runoff, snow retention. And so if you take that out of the ecosystem, then there could be a negative cascading effect trickling down as a result of it being lost. So very important species that definitely deserves attention.

Thank you so much, Shane. I really appreciate you taking the time today.

You bet. Thank you. I'm joined today by Cassandra Schnarr, the agricultural resource specialist at Boulder County Parks and Open Space. Welcome, Cassandra.

Thank you so much. Glad to be here. What do you actually do at Parks and Open Space and how does that connect to stewardship? So Parks and Open Space in Boulder County, we own about 100,000 acres of land. 25,000 acres of that is agricultural land that we lease out to local farmers and ranchers. So it's a portion of Parks and Open Space that not a lot of people know about and that is not open to the public. So part of my job is working with those farmers and ranchers that lease our land. We have about 70 leaseholders and working with them, working with the public as well and their concerns about agriculture on open space.

Could you talk a little bit about where does stewardship fall into that for you?

Yeah, so stewardship is not just the act of caring, but it's the very action word that kind of pulls together the rest of our values, I think. Our stewardship action in our workgroup involves innovation and trying to look at not necessarily just how farming is done on our lands, but how we approach our leasing, our leaseholders, our relationships with the community, involving all the voices and everyone. You know, we have leaseholders that do traditional farming and have ag families that go back generations, you know, seven generations even. And then we've got people who are brand new and have just been farming a few years. So incorporating all of them together, all of their voices, as well as the voices and concerns of the public, of the commissioners, of POSAC, which is our Parks and Open Space Advisory Committee, and the various workgroups at Parks and Open Space, the wildlife group, plant ecology, because agricultural lands are working lands. We shouldn't divide them into like working lands versus natural lands. Like we really work to say these natural resource values really work together with agriculture.

That's really interesting. I don't think I'd heard that distinction before, ag lands and working lands. Can you just define the differences? I feel like I'm not quite sure.

Sure. So I would say, you know, a lot of people, we talk about agriculture and people think of crops like growing corn or something, but there are all kinds of agriculture and different types of lands. And you're working the land when you're grazing it, when you're, you know, doing different rotations through that land of different crops or different livestock and everything. So often we'll also have, say, streams running through. So you've got riparian areas also on those same lands or you've got, you know, an eagle nest in a tree adjacent to it. So how do you not just balance all of those things, but try to make them work in harmony together?

Oh, I think you really hit on it at the end there. How do you make it work in harmony together? So much of our work means incorporating all of these different work groups and coming together to figure out, you know, we have this parcel of land, this piece of land that we might need to lease out. How do we make sure that we keep X, Y, and Z protected? So I'm just wondering, how do you navigate conversations like that? What is that like for you?

We work closely, especially with the wildlife group, and we just have sometimes very blunt and honest conversations about what is feasible and what is not feasible. Say there's an eagle on a property or something. Of course, we have for our work groups at Parks and Open Space, we have the buffers and buffer time periods where we don't do any work within those buffers. But our agricultural leaseholders still need to do work often in there. So balancing, okay, they need to go harvest or they need to go do this work. What do you need us to do to try to minimize impacts to wildlife?

Minimize impact. That's such an interesting, and sometimes it feels like hard to define term. Like when have you minimized enough impact? Like when have you made it? I don't know that there's any, like it's not like the eagles got to come down and be like, thumbs up, dude, you did it. You know, so it's you just we're always doing the best we can and trying our hardest. And is it is it something like, okay, the species might be a little more sensitive to sound or movement or how do we minimize the amount of machinery we need or ask our leaseholder to do that with, you know, whatever the operation they have to do on the land, do it with smaller machinery. Can they put it off a few weeks? Can they do it earlier so it's not hitting at some kind of sensitive time period? It sounds like logistics. There's a lot of logistics discussions and things, and then a lot of communicating with our leaseholders about like, okay, hello, there's a burrowing owl. Here's what it means for you.

And then on the leasing end, like for instance, sometimes we might have to take a portion of a property, not necessarily out of the lease, but for that year not charge for that acreage or something. So we adjust simply because it makes it easier for everyone. So our leaseholder is not saying like, well, this is also my business and now I'm losing money because I can't use this part of the land to produce a crop that I can sell. That sounds like it could be really frustrating for someone.

Can you maybe give me like an example of how you navigated a situation like that? The example would simply be just having those conversations and saying like, this is what's going to have to happen on this property. How can we minimize the impact to you and your business? Because we recognize this is a business and this affects your income, your livelihood, your family. So recognizing that every decision we make internally can really have those impacts that are just to somebody's day-to-day life and their long-term business prospects as well.

Absolutely. You brought up something just now and earlier around honesty, being really honest internally and externally and transparent. So everyone's aware, hopefully in advance, of what's going to happen and why certain things need to trigger other things, why we need to make sure that we save the owl in a very specific way.

And I think that sparks for me, in many ways, you're a landlord. That's a lot of power to have. And I'm wondering, how do you navigate using that power in a way that is equitable? I think we try not to throw our weight around of like, we're your landlord, we're going to, you know, you must do this. We really try to have those conversations where we say, here's the boundaries we're working within or the boundaries we're coming up against. How do we work with you with respect to, say, grazing lands or something?

We might need to talk to one of our leaseholders about de-stocking. Like maybe we're seeing a lot of overgrazing on a property or something. We know that those conversations are going to affect their business because there's not a lot of other land in Boulder County where they can, you know, lease other land to put their cattle on, especially if it's a drought year or something. There's not enough vegetation out there. We say, okay, we want to respect your work. How can we do that and also achieve these goals? Let's work together. Let's collaborate.

And so it's a lot about collaboration. We talk a lot about being in partnership with our leaseholders. And internally, our conversations, we have a lot of conversations about what does it mean to be a partner? What does that actually look like? How do we demonstrate that?

I love that. I think that, you know, framing it in the way of partnership really helps, in a way, share the power to the extent possible. And I would love to hear more of your thoughts about what does it mean to share power? It's respecting that we're all coming with different needs. But instead of seeing them as in conflict, we need to see where we can make them synergistic, so to speak, but make them work together.

The people of Boulder County own these lands and the people of Boulder County have expectations about what they want to see on these lands and how they want these lands treated. How can we pull in those needs and as well as the needs from our leaseholders?

Thank you so much, Cassandra. It was absolutely lovely talking to you today. Thank you so much. I enjoyed it.

Next, we have Will Towle, Buildings and Historic Preservation Supervisor, whose work invites us to think about how we honor place and preserve the stories we built into our landscape. Will, when you think about the word stewardship, what comes up for you? It can be personally or professionally.

From a historic preservation sense, I guess it's the attempt to honor our county's past through the preservation of our most historically significant structures. So it would be great to hear an example of how you've practiced stewardship in your work.

Well, with our current abundance of historic structures, we've got hundreds. We've filtered those down by using public and staff use, historic significance and visibility on the landscape to come up with targeted approach to our maintenance. So we now have tier one buildings, tier two, tier three, and the care and condition that they get is reflective of that importance. Can you talk a little bit more about this targeted approach? What does that look like? What does that mean? Just for me and for other folks that may not be familiar with that.

I've got six people on my team and it's just not enough to take care of everything. So we've had to pare down our assets to an achievable work plan. And this has done that. So we've got a handful of museums that we're bringing public school groups in and out of and education and outreach are using regularly. So those are going to hit the top of my list in terms of keeping them in the best condition.

Then we have some that are used a little less of high value to the public, whether that's like a Heil Ranch where we have historic structures, trailhead and parking lot that's right in among them. So you can't go there without enjoying or appreciating some of those. So that's going to make, you know, maybe a second tier, some that are staples on the landscape, but you as a Boulder County resident aren't going to be able to go in there anytime soon. They don't have public access. So they're important, but a step down from some of the more accessible historic properties and structures.

I heard you, you know, talk about kids that are coming and enjoying these historic buildings. So what does it mean to you to preserve buildings for future generations to enjoy? I take a lot of pride in that. Being able to reflect Boulder County history, again, in a more diverse way is exciting. There's a lot of work to be done. I guess it's just a pride point. It'd be something that I'll feel proud of when we get there.

Can you tell me a little bit more about where would you like to be? What does that look like? We did some visioning recently and, you know, where all daydreams, small and large were welcome. And like right now we have an agricultural heritage center, which I think is one of our most visited, surely by school groups it is. If I could write the future, it'd be great if we had a Native American heritage center. I know we've got plans to have bison on open space and I'd love to be a part of that. They'll need structures and fences and whatnot. That's a glimpse of what I daydream about what the future might look like at parks and open space.

Me too. And I really appreciate the vulnerability to say that there is still work here and that we're doing our best to start those conversations, to continue those conversations, whether it's indigenous folks, black or brown folks as well, to make sure that they feel included and they feel like they have a place in our parks and open space.

Thank you so much, Will. I'm joined today by David Hirt, a research program supervisor who brings a scientific and systems levels perspective to restoration and preservation of plant communities. Thank you for joining me today.

Thanks for having me. What does good stewardship look like and what does that mean to you? Well, I think as maybe alluded to earlier, you know, I simply put stewardship's caring for something you value, something you love, you know, whether that's a person or a pet or an animal or a community or a place in the context of parks and open space and my role there, it's caring for the lands we manage, 67,000 acres or so, you know, specifically for me, the plant communities and the plants on those lands.

Can you talk more specifically and maybe give an example of how that shows up in your work? One of the primary tasks we do is ecological restoration. What more of a concrete way to see stewardship in action really is healing a damaged landscape, whether that was from a flood, a fire, natural events, or, you know, historic human impacts or even impacts that continue now into the present.

The night can take many forms, you know, we can stream restoration, grassland restoration, the ability to take a stream that was straightened, add sinuosity back to it, get vegetation growing again, creating habitat for aquatic invertebrates, fish, beavers, reconnecting the floodplain, healing a wetland that's been drained in the past, and bringing back that historic hydrology and plant community or re-wilding, you know, what was once a dry land agricultural field and making that a native grassland. I mean, these are all like great examples of the work that we get to do on our lands here.

Something I keep hearing you say is healing, and you said healing a damaged landscape. And I really love that because I agree, I think that is what stewardship is. And so can you maybe tell me an example of a specific project where you really feel like you did exactly that, healed a damaged landscape?

Yeah, I mean, just last year, last fall, we worked on a wetland, like a high elevation wetland, actually a fen, which is kind of term for an old growth wetland. It's these real organic, deep peat soils that take hundreds, if not thousands of years to form. Sometime in the past, somebody had drained that, put ditches through it, drained it, and had turned it into something else completely, this dry kind of landscape, trees moving in. So we went up there to replace fill that was taken out of there. We had groundwater wells in for two years prior to this project, so we could see if we're successful, if we can raise the groundwater. And we were able to do that. We had a contractor help us, volunteers do some of the work as well, our youth corps and our staff put this back together as best we can. And it's a work in progress. We're going to be back up there this year again, planting more plants. But so far, all evidence points to what we're doing has definitely helped and the groundwater is raising and we're getting back to something that looked like it did hundreds of years ago.

The word that comes to mind when I hear you talk is transformation, bringing something back to what it looked like, transforming it back. Can you talk a little bit about how maybe transformation and how that works alongside stewardship? Well, I mean, I can think of that in a few ways. I mean, transformation of the land and transformation of people too. You know, we do a lot of projects with volunteers, people come out and, you know, they have a myriad of reasons to be there. In the end, they come out to help with the project. They're trying to give something back, which is the stewardship piece. And because they recognize that, you know, they get something from our open spaces themselves, whether that's just, you know, their mental health, physical health, place to recreate or to relax, whatever it is they're there for. You see people come out and do volunteer work on these projects, helping to heal the landscape, and it kind of transforms themselves too. I think they feel better about themselves. They feel better about the parks, the place. You know, they're becoming stewards in their own right. So that's kind of a nice piece of the work we do, different than the ecological and the natural piece, that's the human element.

I think what I'm hearing is that some of this work is really about also people healing with the land and creating a connection for all of us, right? The plants and animals, bringing it back to what it used to look like and bringing people along with that. And that's such a powerful way to understand stewardship, and I really appreciate that.

Maybe to move us into a slightly different direction, maybe a more difficult direction, maybe what are some of the tensions or trade-offs that you navigate when you practice stewardship? We're faced with a different climate than we used to have. That's a huge challenge. That's challenging for us to get our plants to grow, to get our seed to germinate and establish. And I think it is really hard. You know, we have this vision of maybe what we think things used to look like, and we're not necessarily going to get there on these projects. You know, I think we have some novel ecosystems now that we have to be willing to be like, you know, this is a little bit different than it used to be, but it's better than it was before we started, and perhaps that's good enough. And we're on a right trajectory at least.

Thank you so much. It's been really lovely talking to you, David. Okay, thank you.

Sustainability is often talked about in terms of natural resources, but it's also about sustaining relationships, knowledge, and systems that support equity and care. True sustainability means thinking long-term, not just about what we protect, but how and for whom. I'm joined today by Stefan Reinhold, our Resource Management Division Manager, who brings a grounded, thoughtful approach to what sustainability looks like in practice.

What does sustainability mean to you? Sustainability can mean a lot of different things, and I always think of it more in the terms of coming from the environmental side, and that's my background. But I think it's about making decisions and taking actions that consider the long-term impact of your actions on the environment.

Can you talk a little bit more about how that shows up in your day-to-day? I lead the Resource Management Division and oversee and work closely with our wildlife staff, our plant ecology staff, our forestry staff, our invasive weed staff, our rangers, and our education and outreach group. And so it's a lot of groups coming together to do projects on the landscape. So from the environmental side, we're doing projects like forest restoration, grassland restoration, creek restoration, also a lot of monitoring to see kind of what's changing with climate change and things like that.

Can you give an example of, I'm thinking specific more around like forest fires and controlled burns. Can you talk a little bit about how that shows up and why that's important for sustainability? Ecosystems here in Colorado are really driven by, we kind of call it disturbance ecology. That's kind of the concept, and fire is one of those. Fire is a tool that has actually kept our ecosystems in check. Different areas have different fire return intervals. However, people have always been scared of fire, and we have actually stopped fire from occurring on the landscape. That actually caused a big change in the structure that's out there. Our forests are actually overgrown and dense because of that. And so what we do, some of the projects that we do is we actually are trying to restore the structure that existed before kind of European settlement. And we try to get that structure back to a structure that can actually take fire. So we actually have to follow up with that process. And so we do our thinning projects that restore the forest, and then we follow it up with prescribed fire that can actually bring it back and kind of get it onto a regular rotation.

I really appreciate what you said around restoring the structure that was there before European folks arrived. And I think that really gets to indigenous knowledge, their deep knowledge of the land that we live on, and this understanding that we need to fire it in order to control it, to make sure that we don't have massive wildfires like we have seen, right, across the United States and especially with climate change. We know that that's only going to continue.

And so I think maybe a hard question for you around like, how do you balance the tension between the looming threat of climate change and then the need to continue to do forest fires? I think there's a couple different things. We have kind of a gradient in our system going from the plains all the way up to the mountains. And so we can start to look at areas that maybe at high elevation that show a forest structure that's similar to our lower elevations. And we can target those areas to preserve them and protect them so that as climate change approaches, we can pay attention to the species gradient and where things are. So we can, with a light hand, change the structure that we're seeing at a higher elevation.

A good example is one of our properties, Sherwood Gulch by Caribou Ranch. That's exactly what we're doing. There's a lot of ponderosa pine in that forest up there. That area usually has a lot of lodgepole pine. And so we were able to say, this is a really good area of ponderosa that we want to preserve as ponderosa. So kind of taking advantage of what's already there. And then as climate change happens, we're going to have to adjust.

We had the Calwood fire that did a lot of damage to our Heil Valley Ranch property. And one of the big questions was, are we going to get out there and replant at all? And actually the answer is no. And part of that is because there should be more openings on the landscape. And now we have one. And so we should strategically plant trees rather than just let's plant everything and let's replant this. Let's think about where trees will actually have a better chance of surviving.

I really appreciate the intentionality behind that and making sure that we're taking the time to think about everything that is affected. Because even though right now we're talking about forests specifically, we know that wildlife will be affected, for example. And I know in your division you manage all types of folks, like you said. And so I'm wondering how climate change is affecting other work groups, not just forestry.

You know, we actually have an interdisciplinary team. So when the foresters plan a project, we actually get input from everybody to make sure that, oh, there's this specific habitat that we want to preserve and we don't want these plants to either be trampled by equipment or burned during a prescribed fire. Or there's an eagle's nest nearby that we don't, if you're going to do a prescribed fire, we don't want the smoke going towards that eagle's nest. So we really take those concepts into play.

But our plant ecologists are always looking at locations where they can do stream restoration projects. In terms of climate change, we are going to see more big rain events and the possibility of more floods and kind of bigger events that may occur. When we do our restorations of our streams, we have to think about how can that stream corridor be sustainable? Not necessarily the actual footprint of the stream that's there, but when there's a flood, are we giving the stream room to move during a flood? Are there channels that the water can go so that we're not flooding the town, but the water has a location to go?

And we've always, you know, in a lot of urban areas, we've channelized streams. And so when these big events happen in a channelized environment, we're going to have a lot of damage. But if we can actually let the stream do what it naturally does, we'll be better off.

Something that's so wild about the environment is that it really doesn't follow, you know, I know that we own certain parcels of Boulder County, but it's going to affect wherever it's going to affect. And so I think what I'm hearing is like, what is our role and what can we do to make sure that we channel something over here so it doesn't affect a town? And I think that that's so important. And it gets at, you know, what are our relationships with the cities? What are our relationships with other organizations that are already in play and are also doing this work?

And I'm thinking specifically about the sustainability of those relationships and how important it is to make sure that we bring those folks into the fold. Collaboration is kind of the number one thing that natural resource managers have to do. Fire doesn't stop at a fence. Animals migrate off of your property. So we really have to kind of pay attention to the relationships of all the different agencies that are doing similar work.

So, you know, when we're dealing with water, we've got work with our agricultural tenants. We have to work with ditch companies. We have to talk to other agencies like maybe the city of Boulder or the city of Longmont. We have to work with universities that have some of the knowledge and the research. So building those collaboratives is really important. Working with local watershed groups like the Boulder Watershed Collective. Davis is really important to understand how our properties can affect the overall stream or creek. I think this really gets at community and connection. We all need to work together in order to create a sustainable future as well, right, for the generations that are going to use this land. So I'd love to hear a little bit more about what you think of that.

Say that question again. Can you talk a little bit more about what sustainability means for future generations? We have a responsibility. One of the things that I've always been worried about is population growth. You know, as more and more people come to the Front Range and we're starting to think about that population growth and the balance between us utilizing our properties and for trails and for all those different things, who's speaking for the wildlife and the habitat and all that is there. So it is our responsibility as open space managers to pay attention to all those pieces and really try to keep the balance. And it's really difficult because people want to recreate. People want to get on the trails. People don't want to be crowded on the trails. So that means more trails. So then it's like, well, but wait a minute, you know, that more trails means fragmentation of habitat and loss of habitat. And so it's really difficult to be in this space and think the decisions we make today are really going to affect generations to come.

Thank you so much for naming that so clearly. There's such a tension, right, between making sure that we meet the public's needs, but also that conservation piece of making sure that bald eagles and its nests are okay and are half a mile buffer away from whatever they need to be.

What is the hardest part of creating a culture of sustainability? You know, we have different values. You know, somebody is going to value wildlife and that's all they want, right? That they want protection of wildlife, which is valid. Then you're going to have other individuals that they want recreation. That's what they want. And trying to, again, find that balance between those different things. And so people are not going to always be happy with the final outcome. It's difficult to defend decisions that you're making to the public sometimes because you know that you've put a lot of energy and effort into defending a certain aspect, but you know that there has to be compromise at times.

Compromise. Isn't that the word of the day? You know, finding those places where we can each get at least a little bit of what we're looking for. And that involves making sure that the community is present and that every voice is present. And that's a lot of work to make sure that everyone's there and everyone has a voice and an opinion. And then, you know, the process of really trying to distill that into action and into practice.

If you could shift one norm or practice to make our sustainability efforts more lasting, more equitable, what would that be? We have to identify the values that we as Boulder County have. And I mean Boulder County as the collective Boulder County. And I think that's where some of the importance from maybe our education and outreach staff lies, is trying to connect with the community, understand what the community wants us to do. I don't know if it's time for maybe another survey of the county to kind of gather that information. I mean, we've done a good job with our Boulder County Comprehensive Plan. But I think times have changed. And so what direction should we be headed? So it's really getting more input.

Absolutely. And I completely agree. And continuing to involve the community is so important, particularly the communities that have been excluded, marginalized, and disenfranchised. And I'm talking about Black, Brown, and Indigenous folks. And we know that they have a really strong connection to the land, and yet they're not present at our parks and our open spaces as much as they could be. And so I think that's where community engagement really comes in.

Yeah, I agree. And our education and outreach group has a community engagement team. It actually pulls from other places within our department as well. And that's kind of one of the focuses is to really kind of build those relationships and co-create programs that we can utilize so we can understand what their needs and wants are for open space.

Exactly, what their needs and wants are. You know, I think for a long time there's been an assumption about what folks need and want. And it's really been amazing seeing that there is now this shift and this culture change to really try and meet folks where they're at. It's really amazing the work that education and outreach are doing to start to build those bridges.

Yeah, it's awesome. Thank you so much, Stephen. It was absolutely lovely talking to you. Great, thank you for the time. Service is about more than just being helpful. It's about accountability, trust, and humility. At its best, service means showing up for people in ways that are consistent, respectful, and responsive to what they actually need, not what we think they need. I'd like to welcome Bevin Carithers, Chief Park Ranger, whose work often requires navigating safety and care all at once. Thank you for being here today. Thank you for having me. What does service mean to you? You know, I've been thinking about this a lot. I think service is something that's in everyone's DNA. It's in all of us. It's there. And when you move into the area of public service, I think that's where things change a little bit. People that are in public service, like everyone at Parks, that's when that little piece of the DNA, that little piece of wanting to serve others really comes out. It becomes the focus of your life. So instead of earning money or moving up in a corporation, that little piece of you that really, you know, is about serving others comes out. And that's what guides your work.

What you're getting at is that there's a joy in serving others. There's something that feels inherent about helping someone else, whether that's navigating a trail or something different. Can you talk a little bit more about how that shows up in your work? Yeah, I like that you said it's inherent because it is just something that happens. So I think especially among public servants and then the rangers, it's just one of those things that every day you're there to do something for someone else, do something for your coworkers, help that person on the trail, take a phone call and help somebody understand where they can go hiking or at the hardest times it's us providing life-saving measures or something more than that. So yeah, it's inherent. It's just something you do. I don't think it's a skill you really develop. It's there. It's around you all the time. It's in you. And when the time comes, you tend to know what to do.

I think there's something there too about building trust with the community of being someone that is reliable, that I can go to, whether it is just for a quick call or I need help right now. Can you tell me maybe give me an example of a moment where you felt like you were really practicing service? And it can be big or small. That's a tough question because we wear a uniform and sometimes our uniform sends a message that we're not there in service, that we're there to punish someone or to let someone know they're doing something that's not right or whatever that is. But I also think our uniform can mean a lot more than that. It can mean I'm helpful. I'm here to serve you in whatever way you need to provide information or guidance or a Band-Aid. So it's tough at times in the position we're in and in the state we're in right now. I think the uniform and who wears it really makes a difference.

I really appreciate you touching on that because I think what you're getting at is that the uniform holds a layered meaning for all kinds of communities. So what do you do to try and bridge that trust with folks that may not feel so comfortable? Most of our park visitors see the uniform and they know what it means right away. But for those park visitors that haven't historically been in our parks, it's been our mission to go into communities to get to know them over long periods of time, to share with them what we do and why we're there and who we are and that we have things in common. And then the uniform just kind of fades away or it becomes a symbol for them that they know they can trust us to.

Can you talk a little bit more about what's the hardest part of being a ranger? The hardest part is also the best part is that we never know what's coming. You know, you can plan your whole day, you can have an idea of what you're going to do and that all changes in a second. So always being flexible and having a sense of spontaneity is great. But then there are times that you, hey, we just never know what we're going to do and that's also kind of fun. And I think that's so wrapped up in what service is, right? Like sometimes it shows up as something that's planned and there's like an engagement around it, but sometimes service is I got to drop everything and go. Absolutely. I think that's the best part of being a public servant is you just never know what you're going to do and get into. And if you have the right spirit and the right attitude, it'll take you wherever you need to be.

I'm wondering, speaking about this kind of being reactive, what does it look like to practice service when it's not just reactive, when it's a little bit more planned? Can you give me an example of that? I think one thing that we do within the Ranger group is that we always talk about being in service of others. So every time we get together, we talk about, hey, the most important thing we do is serving others, serving others in the outdoors, serving our teammates, and we always make time for it. Even on the busiest day, if someone needs something from us, whether it's a coworker in the office or someone out in the parks, we make time for it. And that's a special thing, I think, among our team especially and within law enforcement.

I really like that, being in service of others. Can you tell me a little bit more about how do you promote that cultural internally and externally? Because I think it can be difficult to show, to say to someone, to learn. We talk about it all the time, and we don't just talk about the things that happen in the parks that surprise people and aren't great and those things. We talk about all the things that we do that are positive and how we helped each other. I'm talking about just somebody we helped or a school group that we interacted with or somebody from one of the communities that we work with. And those stories are just as important as the things most people think we do. I think what you're getting at is that there's a balance, right? The work is hard and it's also so deeply rewarding.

Thank you so much, Bevin. Thank you. I am joined today by Brian Bartel, the buildings and historic preservation field supervisor. His approach to service is hands-on, responsive, and community grounded. I'm so excited you're here. Thank you. I am too.

Brian, what does service mean to you? For us is to put accommodations forward out in the parks, fulfill needs that the community has shared with us. Service is a big part of what Parks and Open Space does. It encompasses so many things. We definitely hear from the community. They let us know sometimes what they need. We get to take it from there. It is fun for me to think that we provide a service for the people who voted us the ability to have open space. That ends up being a pretty important aspect. Originally, our purpose was to conserve land and keep it from being developed. But through the years, it obviously became so much more than that.

So a little bit of what I'm hearing is that service really allows and makes folks able to enjoy our parks and our open space, right? Without service, it feels like it would all fall apart. It also sounds like service is one of those things that doesn't just happen once. It very much is a continual effort.

Can you tell me how y'all engage with the community? How do you hear from the community? Sometimes they let us know if they are upset that they can't use a certain property. That space may not be available, so we have to go to the next step and find a place that is available. So some of the wildlife needs to be protected would be closed to the public, but yet we can realign trails and other parts of that property to allow for people to use.

Can you share an example of a moment, of maybe your favorite moment, where you've gotten to engage in service for the community? And what did that look like? I hired on as a carpenter when they needed to put up picnic table shelters, for instance, and restrooms and so forth that every trailhead needs. But that was part of my service. Every day I showed up to work and I knew it was for a good cause. That's the best when it all feels like it's really important and like it's made that big impact.

Yes. I would just say too that the voters voted for it out of concern to keep the county looking green and the wildlife happy. They also did it from their hearts. They let us know that if we give you the ability to be an agency to protect it and to open some of those spaces up for us, then here you go. We've taken that seriously and provided, it's just a back and forth. We've done our best to keep them happy. And I think you really hit on it. It's about the heart, right? The heart of wanting to keep parks and open space accessible to everyone and beautiful.

Thank you so much, Brian. It was lovely talking to you today. Very good. Thank you very much too.

Huge thanks to our guests for sharing their stories and insights, as well as Longmont Public Media for providing a recording space. Please follow us on social media. We're on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube. And don't forget to subscribe to our podcast series, Voices of Open Space, for more stories from the field, the forest, and the folks behind the work on your favorite platform. Until then, take care, and we'll see you out on the trail. Thank you.