One Thing Leads to Another: The Legacy of Ann Cooper, Volunteer Naturalist Transcript

This year marks the 50th anniversary of Boulder County Parks and Open Space, and it feels fitting to pause and reflect on where it all began. In 1975, the Volunteer Naturalist Program was launched alongside the department itself. A small group of volunteers stepped forward to help a new department share the wonders of nature and open space with the community. At that time, the department managed only a few hundred acres. In fact, in 1973, Bald Mountain Scenic Area, which is west of Boulder up Sunshine Canyon, was the only property open to the public. Over the decades, Boulder County voters committed to the vision of open space by approving sales and use taxes to expand and care for these lands. By 1993, the department managed about 3,500 acres. Today, that number has grown to more than 107,000 acres, a truly remarkable transformation.

Within that story lies another story, one of dedication, passion, and service. For nearly half a century, one volunteer has been a witness to and participant in that journey. She has walked alongside the department through countless seasons, teaching, writing, and inspiring the community, while giving her time, knowledge, and heart.

I'm your host, Larry Colbenson, former Natural History Program Coordinator for Boulder County Parks and Open Space, and I had the privilege of working with and learning from Ann Cooper for over 24 years. It is an honor in this milestone year to welcome you, Ann, into the studio as a longtime volunteer, naturalist, educator, and writer. Welcome.

Thank you, Larry. You've been with the department for so long. You've seen many changes at Parks and Open Space over the years, which we will get to later. But to begin with, can you share with us a little bit about your background, your history, how you found the Volunteer Naturalist Program and began your volunteer career with the county?

Oh, it's a long story. I tend to make everything a long story. As soon as I open my mouth, you'll realize I came from somewhere else. I accidentally emigrated to this country and to Colorado in 1965, and I had little kids in tow for many years. But I wanted to learn as much as I could about the Colorado because I thought I was only going to stay for two years. So I had to desperately fit in everything I wanted to learn in that time. Of course, two years turned into 10, turned into 20, turned into 60 at this point. That's how life goes.

I had been doing medical research, but when my daughter was born, I became a home mom. And when I came here for the two-year immigration stint, I didn't have a job because I thought I was going to be leaving again. And so I basically frittered away. I took classes at CU. I went and did nature surveys along Boulder Creek, bird nesting studies. I started telling my dad the names of wildflowers because he would tell me after his visits from England, he'd got lots of photographs unnamed. Could I help? So that's where it began.

And I didn't sign up for Volunteer Naturalist straight away because we happened to be in New Zealand at that time. But when I came back, my kids were getting to be middle school, high school, the years when they don't want anything to do with mother anywhere near. And so I decided I had to do something for myself. And that's when I signed up for Volunteer Naturalist.

But I had an encounter with somebody that I just met at the Pawnee Grasslands Institute summer camp out on at Briggsdale. I happened to identify a flying by double crested cormorant. And he said to me on the side, you seem to know a lot. What do you do with it? It was a real gotcha moment for me. And I think that's what decided me to try and share some of the things I'd learned with other people that were coming new to the area. And that's how it began.

Wow. That's an incredible history. And beginning with such a fledgling department, are there any other impressions or memories or programs that you remember from early on from 1978?

I honestly can't remember the training at all. I must have blanked that out over the years. I believe Rich Koopman was in charge. And he was for quite a few years. And I'm sure the classes were wonderful, but I honestly don't recall them. The first program I gave was very, very brash in thinking I could pull it off. It was at Walden Pond, so it was one of the prime areas of giving any programs. And I signed up to do a children's nature two-part summer camp type event, which was called Pond Soup. The only thing that made the soup was all the kids in the pond getting muddier and muddier.

I look back and wonder how I had the nerve to try it because I spend a lot of time before any programs sitting in the marsh at Walden or other places thinking, oh, I hope nobody comes because I get so nervous about giving programs. And then as soon as people arrive, I'm just delighted to meet them. Oh, that's wonderful. I can't really remember other programs very much at the beginning. I think I was always in a little bit of a daze, never remembering quite what I had said or seen because of my nerves. Sure. So that's a little bit of a blank slate.

Speaking of Walden Ponds, Walden Ponds Wildlife Habitat is, as you well know, an open space property that was created from reclaiming open pit gravel mining back in the 50s through the 60s and into the 70s. And it wasn't reclaimed as an open space until 1975. And I know shortly thereafter, as you just mentioned, you began volunteering and then your connection to Walden Ponds grew over the years as you monitored various insects and critters and I think found some inspiration for some of your writings. Can you share some of your experiences at Walden Ponds and how that factored into your volunteer journey?

Of course, because I wanted to learn as much as I could, I was already a birder in England, which didn't help at all here. I mean, I still laugh at the idea of you thinking it's a robin when it's this great big thrush instead of this little tiny red-breasted thing. But I did do bird surveys for a couple of years and it must have been before any computing because I remember laboriously going out every week for two years, logging what I saw and heard and then having to write it in this ledger. And I'm really curious to know if the ledger still exists somewhere in the department. A lot slips in any organization over the years and you do tend to lose the history.

Yeah, maybe in somebody's personal archives at Parks and Open Space. We could find an old ledger. I've also been very curious to know who the original volunteers were because I can't remember them and I don't know whether the parks logged that with some kind of other big ledger, but who knows? You brought up Rich Koopman and my memory of him is that when he started with the department, he was kind of a one-man band. I think he even lived at the A-frame at Walden Ponds for a brief stint and worked as a ranger, resource manager, representative for the county, did a little bit of everything until the county built up, acquired more properties and were able to hire staff. So you do go a ways back, that's for sure.

I didn't know that about Rich. I know that you started when you became the volunteer coordinator doing a lot more than you ended up doing just the nature side of things. So I can see how these jobs morph over the years. I also did dragonfly surveys for about maybe 13 years and created a great database of what we'd seen at the various wetland areas in the parks. I don't know how that started. I think it started with a trip I treated myself to Texas to learn about dragonflies. I think it was called Dragonfly Days.

It's interested me over the years how much what happens outside of volunteering adds to the volunteering and how much volunteering adds to everything that goes on outside of the program. So there's a great intersection of interests there. And now I'm on to moths as my last night was taken up with doing moth lighting. So if I look a bit bleary, it's because I was up too late. But we did a first ever moth program at Walden last year and had a good attendance of volunteers having a lot of fun seeing moths and everything else that turned up at the bright lights. And it was great fun. And I appreciate Carlos for letting me get away with doing something in the park after sunset because of course they're closed at that point.

Exactly. As we've discussed before, sort of the theme for this interview is that one thing leads to another. And I think you really have exemplified that as you've sort of moved from topic to topic over the years and expanded your knowledge base and expanded your experience. I remember when you were doing a lot of dragonfly monitoring at Walden Ponds, when I had office hours at Walden, I would keep an eye out and occasionally see you skulking around the ponds and go out and say hi or wave you in so we could have a little chat, which I enjoyed over the years tremendously. It was really fun. I always look forward to going out to Walden and I never knew what I would see. And the biggest thrill during the dragonfly years was when we turned up things that hadn't been seen before. And I realized then that staff time is very precious and the volunteers do fill a bit of a niche that staff just don't have time for. And I think the dragonfly survey was the first time that anything was done. I believe Matt Cobb now does all the water-based, so he knows all about the dragonfly larvae, but nobody had been tracking anything else. And so I was very, very happy to have a place that I could fit in and learn a lot myself.

Sure. Yeah, you were on the ground floor of volunteer monitoring. As you well know, there have been other volunteer monitoring projects since, including raptors and songbirds and Abert's squirrels and various other animals on open space. So you really were part of that foundation to utilize people who love nature and had some knowledge of it to contribute to the community and parks and open space. I realize how many more monitoring programs there are now, and the hard thing is to decide that you really haven't got time to split yourself again. Because I want to do it all. That's my trouble. And there's always more to learn, which is nice.

One of the priorities with parks and open space has long been sharing nature with children. And right from the start, you began contributing to those efforts, and I know you participated in hundreds of children's programs over the years, field trips, summer camps, as you mentioned. And you also helped for many, many years train new volunteers for children's programming. And that has been also very beneficial. So what attracted you to sharing so much nature with kids? How does that differ from, you know, working with adults?

I think I was always a little bit leery of teaching or presenting to adults because this is a very educated community. And you never knew when you were going to turn up with somebody in your audience that was a real expert. And it would immediately shrink you back to nothing, you know, back to being a kindergartner yourself. I think kids are a lot more forgiving. They're incredibly enthusiastic. Their questions are unbelievably sophisticated for their ages. And they really make you think. You never know what's going to turn up next. And so I loved working with kids all the way along. And I think probably there's an element there that I've never really grown up myself. I'm still liable to be knee-deep in the pond and dipping and seeing what I can find. So it was a good match.

Teaching adults is different. And I found that it was very noticeable on the children's programs, the family programs, that the adults would be less listening to. And they would actually go along with the kids doing games, discover their childlike approach themselves. And I always loved to see that. And I had a recent, very recent example of that. I was doing a dragonfly program with another naturalist at Pella Crossing about three weeks ago. And there was one father there that was absolutely brilliant. He talked his kids into making a story out of what they were seeing. And what they were seeing was little bit fragments of crawdad claws and footprints. And before we knew it, the kids had come up with this wonderful story about the raccoon that came late at night and found something to eat. So you never know the kids' adult interactions that happen by accident when you have family programs have always delighted me.

Yeah, working with kids, I find, has always been refreshing because you find that sense of wonder, especially with the younger children who are still exploring and discovering the world around them. I feel that as adults, we tend to lose that over time. Seeing that sense of wonder in children in nature has always been inspirational to me as well. And it reminds me to take a closer look and to try to rediscover that inner child myself. So I can relate to your enjoyment of children's programs.

I agree with that. Although I can also remember moments when I was hard put to know how to deal with the situation. I remember seeing a little duckling on Walden Ponds one day, and then suddenly it disappeared beneath the water and it didn't come back up. And I had a bunch of kids to try and explain and think about what could have happened and that it was all part of nature if a turtle had in fact taken the duckling from below. Although you're thinking about teaching just children, it's not fair to say just children. You can get into some awkward moments too, when you really have to think very hard philosophically about how you deal with explaining. Sure. So, it's a mixture. I mean, I've loved preschool programs in preschools. We have a puppet, which is a great asset to have, that actually turns its head and its eyes blink with an inside mechanism. And I can remember having a conversation with preschoolers when they were asking the owl questions and I was answering and making the owl's eyes blink and its head turn. And everybody was really having a lot of fun. And that's the main thing about this teaching is fun. I think you hit on it there. Keeping the fun in the program is really critical and acknowledging and going with some spontaneity because, as you said, the kids can come up with incredible questions that you never thought of, didn't prepare for, but there it is. They're asking you.

Yes. Speaking of children's programming, Nature Detectives, as you well know, is a pullout section in every quarterly publication of Images that's put up by Boulder County Parks and Open Space. And it's really geared to providing resources for parents, caregivers, and just the kids themselves to learn a little bit about nature. And I know you were sort of on the ground floor of developing Nature Detectives as a feature many years ago. And I wondered if you recall much about how that came about and whose idea it was and things like that.

I don't know who the originator of the idea was. There were three of us and we got to be very good friends through the Volunteer Naturalist Program. They were Anne Armstrong, who later became Park Ranger for the City of Boulder as a plant ecology specialist, and Carol Camper, who went on to do a Masters of Science program and worked at the Education Department of Denver Museum of Nature and Science. But the three of us must have become friends and we decided we should have something for the kids. So we came up with the idea of a centerfold. The first one was about ponds. I think we must have been very hooked on the idea of pond dipping at Walden. And it was pre-personal computers so that it was all hand layout and very crude drawings. And I'm quite embarrassed to look back on the very earliest editions because they're so incredibly amateur compared with what you can do now with publisher programs on your computer. But we had a lot of fun with it. We came up with a banner headline for it, which was thumbprints made into little mice. And it was as simple as that. It was just making a thumbprint, adding ears and a tail, and there you had the banner headline. It basically said if you have ever wondered about things in nature, then you are already a nature detective, and sent the kids out to look for themselves. And that's really been the philosophy. And I have had programs since when we've hung an umbrella on a bush at Walden and shaken the bushes and out come massive spiders and insects of all kinds. And the kids are enthralled by it. You don't need to teach them anything. You just need to give them a chance to look for themselves. So that's basically the start of the centerfold. And I think I was with it until about 1992 and then other people took it over. And there have been various people since have edited and done the illustrations and it's still going. And I love it every time I open the images. It's one of the things I turn to first. I guess I still feel a bit proprietary about the fact that we started it.

Of course. You have to give yourself a pat on the back or whatever. Absolutely. And I think the fact that the department was receptive to ideas from volunteers and they became part of the foundation for later things like nature detectives is kind of a credit to the department as well, which is pretty interesting. It is one of the things that I always look for in images. And I'm sure it caught your attention that the summer 2025 theme was about the superpowers of dragonflies. I did notice that one, yeah. Which is right up your alley, of course. I'm thrilled that it's still going and I hope that it's being used by kids and pulled out as a tool to take and really learn from.

Sure. I think we've already touched on this a little bit. I do remember quite a few years ago chatting with you at Walden Ponds at the VM Center and asking you, it came up in conversation, asking you how you remained inspired and enthusiastic and kept volunteering for as many years as you had back then. And you said that your natural history knowledge and interest is as wide as the Platte River flowing into Nebraska and about an inch deep. And that quote has stuck in my head forever because I feel very similar. I have broad interests in nature and science, but not a lot of knowledge. I'm not an expert in anything. And I wonder how that approach has served you over all these years. I'm not proud of being a mile wide and an inch deep, but I've loved everything that I've learned. And I think that one thing just leads me on to another. You can't study wildflowers without realizing all the insects that visit it. And before you know it, you have to study the insects. And you can't study the dragonflies without thinking about the things they eat. And then you're on to all the other insects too.

Actually, starting the children's page centerfold led to a writing opportunity. The three of us that started Nature Detectives went on to write a book called The Wild Watch Book, which was published by Denver Museum of Nature and Science in about 90-something. I've forgotten already. It was based on what we had learned through putting the newsletter together. And it had a few refinements and we had illustrators from the museum. And that sort of kicked me off onto a whole new tack. It started me on writing books for the museum. I ended up doing three in a series for slightly older children that included a program about bats. I had to publicize the book and I'm not good at publicity and I don't like selling. So I made every school visit I did after that something to do with bat biology and learning about bats. So I developed a whole range of teaching materials for that and brought it back to the volunteer naturalist program and did that. I think I probably taught bats at Halloween for probably about 18 years to various schools.

It's that interchange of outside obligations and volunteer interests that have just intersected the whole time and changed my outlook both outside of the volunteer program and inside of it. And of course, meeting all the people I have met as volunteers and as teaching the new volunteer classes has put me in touch with an incredible range of people with incredible strong knowledge in various fields that I just lack. I think their enthusiasm has rubbed off on me over the years and got me going on another tack. And who knows what will come next? I have no clue. I think that is one of the best things of the program from my perspective too. And the time I coordinated it is just being around all the people. You learn something new all the time. You work with somebody preparing for a program or leading a nature hike. You can't help but learn something new. And I just found that so stimulating. It just kind of keeps you going and motivated to learn more about topics you never thought you were even interested in.

I agree. And it's had another effect on me. The planning for programs has taught me not to be too rigid in the way I approach anything because there's always another way of doing everything. And my way is not the only one. Every time we meet as a pre-program or go out on a pre-hike to make sure we know what's happening at the particular reserve that we're going to teach the program at, I learn something or I learn something new in an approach.

One of the things I'm proudest of in the past is the fact that because I don't like people that rely on notes utterly, I find it a little bit off-putting when people are reading notes. I came up with the idea of tri-fold boards that you can prop at the front of a classroom if you've got a kid group sitting on the carpet, crisscross applesauce. It focuses the kids' attention on the front of the class, which is always helpful. They don't get so distracted if there's something to look at. But it also is your notes for the program written on the board so that you don't have to have a sheaf of paper in your hand. And it's little things like that that I probably learned from other naturalists. I don't know who first came up with all these props, but the amazing amount of resources that the county has for teaching is absolutely amazing, especially thinking of that this year because when the new coordinator, Carlos Lerma, came through with his sidekick, Angela, they decided that they would reorganize all the props. And so I was in on that service project, and it was absolutely awe-inspiring to see what people had donated over the years to help with the teaching. It's a great laundry basket full of puppets and bones of all kinds. It's just fascinating what they have stashed away in the new storage compartment at Walden. That's one ofthe things that I think is so impressive about the volunteer program is that there are so many resources at your disposal as a naturalist, as a teacher, as a hike leader. And I do remember some of those early storyboards that you came up with really inspired later naturalists to develop additional ones. And there's many, many more at Walton Ponds today as a result of that. So you really started a trend, which is also a very useful teaching tool. I've used them myself many times, and there's a little bit of security in having a few notes and bullet points as well as some pretty pictures behind you to, as you said, focus the group, but also remind you about what you wanted to share with them.

I noticed last time I was out there looking at the resources, there's one very popular thing that we had that was four big panels that had four bits of bear on them: the head, the rear, and the middle. We used to take these four panels out to the kindergarten classes and have four kindergartners each take a panel and arrange themselves in the right order to make the bear. And it was such a simple project to put together, but it got so worn out. I don't know whether it even exists anymore or whether it's been replaced, but things work. Exactly. And new generations of naturalists will improve upon and replace props and continue that learning going, which is really wonderful.

Besides the opportunity to pursue your personal interests and curiosity, what other aspects of volunteering with the county stick with you after all these years? Having just met so many volunteer naturalists and so many coordinators, I've just learned to be a lot more flexible about their approaches. And personally, I've learned better to how to blend with other people in the group, do my part, and learn from them while I'm going on. We constantly have different programs that are requested, and so you're never quite sure what you're getting into, but you know one thing for sure, they're all going to be a learning experience. Every different volunteer naturalist you work with is going to teach you something. It's just brilliant. Serendipity that happens.

I think I've known about maybe eight or nine different coordinators over the 47 years, and they've all had different approaches. And I really appreciate you, Larry, particularly, because every time I turned up at Walden to pick up materials for a class, I'd be in a jitter about doing the class, and you'd somehow have that calm, reassuring presence. And I can also remember pitching ideas to you, and I don't remember a single time when you said no, thank goodness. And I don't know, I brought a lot of miscellany in that I had found, like feathers and bones, and you always said, oh, thanks, we can really use this. And I've no idea whether you just secretly slipped them into the garbage can when I left. It was a very welcoming exchange every time I put my nose into the A-frame or the B-frame, as we called it. I don't know what they call it now when it's the only one.

Well, that's very nice to hear. You're very gracious to say that. One of the best parts about working in my role was the generosity of the volunteers and just the creativity. They would come up with, including you, would come up with ideas I had never thought of. And it's like, well, why not? Let's give it a try. If there's interest there, enthusiasm there, and the volunteers are willing to put some effort into making it happen, I wanted to see it happen. And I hope that sentiment is still pervasive in the volunteer naturalist program today. I feel the same about loving that the program continues and is always changing.

Well, for me, it gave me far more gifts than I could ever give back. And so I'm internally grateful. The volunteer naturalist program started me on a writing career and gave me confidence that I could actually speak in front of a group of people without dropping dead of fright. I just think of the whole volunteer naturalist program as another part of my family. And I love the social occasions. I love what I've learned from them. My absolute bottom line for everything, though, stems back to my teaching kids and teaching new volunteers possible approaches to teaching kids.

I've got a lovely quote that I really appreciate sharing if I'm allowed. It goes, "If you want to see more on a nature hike, don't take field guides, take a child." And it comes from the book called Buzz, which is about insects by Thor Hanson. And that's really my standby statement. Take the child with you on the trail.

I agree with you. That's a great quote. Thank you for sharing it. And you've already alluded to this already, but it's one of the things that I reallyTreasured in my time with Parks and Open Space is that beyond the natural history and all the learning and the training and sharing nature with others, there really was a social aspect to it. There was a community. You built a community. You've talked a little bit about that, and you made friends, lifelong friends. I think there were even a couple of relationships that developed over the years between volunteer naturalists who met at Walden Ponds or elsewhere. Well, that's fun to know, yes. I think that was a big part of the success. It sounds like you've enjoyed that as well.

I've enjoyed the people enormously. It's hard to believe, by the way I can blabber on now, that I was an incredibly shy and introverted child. I can remember when I first got married, my husband would have to push me over the threshold of stores because I was nervous to go in and talk to people. Being in the volunteer naturalist program definitely changed my possibilities in life, and I met some very firm friends. We have a picnic each year, and it's like old home week. It's wonderful to catch up with people. And since I stopped doing trainings for new volunteers, I really regret that because I don't get to know the group of people coming in. So I have to make more of an effort to do that. But I guess you can't fit everything in, and I'm also aging out of being able to keep up with kids on the trail anyway. So I have to take it as it comes. You have to pick and choose a little bit. Pick and choose, yes.

And I hope you'll be at the picnic this year. I hope to be there as well. And I've had the same experience seeing faces and relearning names and reliving memories and that kind of thing has always been really an important part of the program, I think, in addition to the contributions to sharing nature with the Boulder County community. So it's nice to hear that you enjoyed that as well.

Oh, absolutely. And I will see you at the picnic. Good. And I'm delighted that it's at a park that I have done dragonfly surveys over the years. Oh, Brawley. Yes. Nice. And in fact, we've done bio blitzes at Brawley this year, practically taking photographs of everything we turned up from two millimeter long bugs in the middle of plants to birds on the wing. And I love that place. So it'll be a great treat to go to Brawley and be able to wander around.

Yeah, we don't have a lot of open space properties that have moving water like rivers or creeks. Walker Ranch, Brawley's right on the Saint Vrain Creek. That's kind of nice. It's a feature I hope we can take advantage of in the future for education and outreach purposes as well, having the river right there. The kids are thrilled to be anywhere near water. So any children's programs are enhanced by being somewhere like Walden or Pella.

You've been there almost from the very beginning of both Boulder County Parks and Open Space as a department and the volunteer naturalist as a volunteer program. In looking back in retrospect, what kind of changes and how do you feel the department and the program has really evolved over the years?

I don't know that it's changed in substance. I think people's styles change. I think there's been a generational turnover that just changes the way people approach each other these days. The program is much bigger than it used to be. I can remember back in the old days, as they say, it was a small enough group to come and have a picnic in our backyard. And now it's something like 135 people enrolled in the program and active. And I don't know whether that's an accurate number. I would like that it's become more countywide. It used to be pretty much centered on Boulder. And of course, Boulder City Open Space does most of the Boulder programming now. And I think that it's been a great asset that we've been able to outreach to other townships in the county.

I am embarrassed to say I only speak English and very, very poor French. And I have never been able to, as an adult, teach myself Spanish because I think that the bilingual aspect of our programs have been a great improvement. And I can remember one program in Lewisville that I gave, which was children and parents that were all Spanish speakers, and I was absolutely helpless. We managed to pitch through by smiling a lot and pointing a lot and having a lot of props. But it made me realize what a lack it is not to have more language capabilities in the program. So I think that's been a real plus.

I would agree with you. I think the program has headed in a really good direction in the sense that they've tried to get more education and outreach in the eastern portion of the county, again, away from Boulder proper, and also addressing populations that we haven't served as well as we wish to over the years, and I think that the inclusion of Spanish on the interpretive panels around the county, I was happy to see that happen, and the fact that we're doing more inclusive and even Spanish-speaking programming, I think is a good indication for moving forward in the future. So I totally agree with you. I hope it continues that way.

I think that one of the strengths over the period of time that I've been involved with the program has been how flexible it is to new ideas, and I just hope that that continues. I can't see any reason why it wouldn't. The fact that naturalists themselves have come and gone, but their ideas have lingered on in the program, and I think that that will continue. I hope so as well. Definitely a longstanding program, and having the 50th anniversary of the department this year really makes one reflect back on what has transpired so far and where we're going tomorrow, I hope.

Is there anything else that we haven't touched on, another anecdote or story or memory that you'd like to share with us today?

I have a scary anecdote that changed my outdoor perspective, which was very weird, and it happened under your tenure when you actually had to clarify rules for me, because we had a sunset hike at Hall Ranch when we got about two-thirds up the trail. One of the people there had recently had serious heart surgery, and he was there and he wanted to prove himself, and he wanted to go to the top regardless, and we got one of these sudden thunderstorms. I was panicked. Two of the naturalists took most of the people back to the trailhead, and I continued with the man who was wanting to prove himself.

We ended up sheltering under a ponderosa pine tree for about two hours in pouring rain, and by the time we left Hall Ranch, it was dark, and my other naturalists shone their headlights up the trail so we would know where to go to get out, and it taught me two things:

1. To be very leery of thunderstorms, especially when I was statutorily in charge of a program, because I was very nervous about thunder.

2. I'm thankful that you clarified that we could always tell people, no, you're free to go wherever you like, but just know once you leave to tell us that you're leaving, and that was a great relief to me to continue programs when I knew that people could leave happily, but please tell me first.

That was one thing, and the other thing that that little experience taught me was how incredibly grateful I was to that group of naturalists that helped me out of a real tight spot by showing me the way home. That was a difficult incident, and fortunately it ended well for all concerned, but it did spur me and the rest of the education and outreach group to really sit down and clarify safety protocols and make sure that everybody, that that was included in the training. It had been before, but not to the extent that we did later, and just to make sure that everybody, both participants and volunteers, were a little bit safer after that incident.

I didn't know it had ramifications. I'm very grateful for that. It did indeed. And we're grateful to it as well.

I have a suggestion that you need to have a special place for people that age out of the volunteer program. You need to have volunteers emeritus, and I think Carlos had mentioned some possibility, because as time goes on, you become less capable of doing some of the things that you used to do, and I'm noticing that he is accepting obligations like cleaning up the A-frame resources as valid means of belonging to the group.

I just can't bear to think of leaving this group, but honestly, I'm aging out. I cannot keep up with a six-year-old on the Heil lichen loop anymore. Many of us can't.

I also want to apologize to the program for all the things I've actually lost over the years that we've hidden in little treasure hunts around the place. There are probably rubber frogs and God knows what left in the undergrowth at Heil, because it's a very popular place to take children's groups, and we don't always manage to pick up everything that we left hidden.

So that's all really. No apology necessary. We've had many experiences over the years where volunteers and staff salted a trail or an area for a scavenger hunt and then forgot where everything was, and if it wasn't always picked up, sometimes naturalists would find them on a later hike, sometimes days or even weeks later. So there's going to be some attrition of interpretive resources when you're trying to be creative and get. Some attrition of interpretive resources when you're trying to be creative and get the kids to be nature detectives. Yes. All the scavenger hunts that I ever got involved with did a lot of litter picking as well. So it's amazing that kids have really sharp eyes.

So I refer again to my quote, take a child with you when you go hiking. Absolutely. And you can't plant that seed of stewardship too early, can you? No, you can't. Catch them young. Yes, exactly.

Okay. Well, I've really enjoyed chatting with you this afternoon, Anne, and revisiting old memories. And the thing that really strikes me is just marveling at how your personal life and journey have so been complemented by and you complemented your volunteer experience with Boulder County. Your personal life affected your volunteer work and the volunteer work affected your personal life until it became kind of one and the same. Absolutely. And I think that's just a beautiful thing and a testament to what volunteering for a program like this can be all about. It certainly gives back far more than you can ever give to the program.

Yeah, that's wonderful. And I look forward this Halloween to seeing somebody else wearing the silly bat costume that I invented out of umbrella spokes to make the finger wings and know that the program continues on. That was one of your best resources and I love seeing that bat costume as well. Thank you. Thank you for donating not only your time and expertise, but so many of the materials and props that help us all learn better to share nature, especially with children, but with adults as well.

Thank you. Your efforts as an educator and a steward and a voice for nature and open space have benefited all of us in Boulder County and beyond. And I look forward to seeing you again soon on the trail or at the ponds.

Thank you, Larry. Thank you, Anne.

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