Wildfire Mitigation: Living with Fire in a Changing Landscape (Episode 19) Transcript

[Sarah Quiroga]: In every place I've lived, there's been one phone call event, the kind of natural hazard that makes the national news and prompts my parents to call to see if I'm alive. So in Lubbock, it was tornadoes. In Chicago, blizzards. In Houston, hurricanes. In Colorado, that phone call event is fire. Fire is woven into the natural rhythm of this landscape, as it has been throughout the rest of the western United States. Long before European Americans settled here, indigenous peoples used fire intentionally to clear travel routes, support crops, shape habitat, and hunt. Fire was a tool that promoted ecological diversity and reduced the risk of catastrophic burns. 
Then came the era of full suppression. In the early 20th century, every fire was treated as an enemy to extinguish. But over time, as wildfires persisted despite our best efforts, ecologists began to understand that fire, especially lightning-ignited fire, is essential in many ecosystems, and that suppression can actually lead to fires that are far more intense and destructive. 
Today, our relationship with fire is more nuanced. We recognize its natural role, but we're also deeply aware of its power to disrupt lives, homes, and communities, especially where wildlands meet urban areas. 
I'm Sarah Quiroga, and today I am speaking with our guest, David Garcia, Water Resources Wildfire Mitigation Specialist of Boulder County Parks and Open Space. And I have to say, David, that this is actually the first place I've ever worked with a wildfire specialist on staff. So I'm excited to talk with you a little about wildfire, the work you do for parks and open space, and what people can do to reduce wildfire risk here in Boulder County. 

[David Garcia]: Thank You. Thanks for having me.

[Sarah]: So first, can you tell me a little bit about the development of your position as Water Resources Wildfire Mitigation Specialist?

[David]: Yes.

[Sarah]: It's a mouthful.

[David]: It is a mouthful. I'm sure most folks know by now about the Marshall Fire, which happened on December 30th, 2021. During that fateful day, I was actually with the Boulder Fire Department, and that was one of the most destructive fires Colorado has seen in its history. It's not the biggest, but definitely the most destructive. Burned down over a thousand homes. Two lives were lost. Many, many people were affected by it. 
Fast forward to 2022, where a ballot measure was presented for wildfire mitigation tax. Overwhelmingly approved the tax by almost 80%. So specifically during that fire, it was thought that there's a lot of fuel that grows in the ditch corridors along the eastern half of the county. And without much fuel management in those areas, it's a really high potential for fire risk and fire danger for fire to travel along those corridors. And so we wanted to put a lot of attention towards that and hopefully get ahead of potentially the next catastrophic event. 

[Sarah]: That's where the water resources half of the title comes from is that you're looking after the water corridors that come into those areas.

[David]: Correct. Yeah. I work primarily on the eastern half of the county where basically all these ditches, these historic ditches from the 1800s have been using the water to convey to the farmers over the last hundred plus years.

[Sarah]: So, I heard you say that you worked for Boulder Fire. Can you tell me a little bit about how you came to be qualified for this position or what your history is with fire mitigation?

[David]: Yeah, absolutely. 2012, the year of Waldo Canyon Fire, there was the High Park Fire. Locally in Boulder, there was the Flagstaff Fire. There's fires everywhere. That year, I was actually with Rocky Mountain Fire, and I got hired on as a wildland firefighter and as a mitigation crew member. And so... When there was no fires, we did mitigation work for all the residents in our district. Fast forward to later that year, I actually got an offer letter from Boulder Fire to come and join the structure fire side of things. And so I started my career then in 2012 and then had been with Boulder Fire since till 2023, where I decided to shift gears and really look towards being on the front end of an emergency rather than on the back end. Because really a lot of times with fire, what we do is we respond to somebody having a bad day. Whereas with wildfire mitigation now, I get to be on the front side of that and I get to work with the public and the community when they're not in high distress. And I get to really kind of talk to them and convince them like, hey, this is a really good thing to do to be prepared rather than to react to it afterwards.

[Sarah]: So as I said in their introduction, fire is a natural part of this landscape. Can you tell me a little bit about why or how?

[David]: Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, there are certain trees whose pine cones actually don't open up unless it's a very high heat intensive fire. And so it can't really spread its wings, so to speak, without fire. And so it's just one of the few fire adaptations that happens. But fire has been part of this landscape for as long as it's been around. Lightning strikes. We know if you've been in Colorado long enough that the summer brings afternoon thunderstorms. Along with that comes lightning. And with that lightning, it just really, that's where the fires would typically start. Nowadays, we have urban expansion into these areas. The wildland-urban interface grows. Over half the population in Colorado is actually in the wildland-urban interface. With that expansion into these wildfire-prone areas, it really changes the nature of the landscape. Fire burn openly as it was, now we have to control it and we have to do prescribed burns and things like that. And so when a landscape is used to having fire to regenerate, you know, for soil health or what have you, and it doesn't do that, then it's really humans changing the environment and altering the cycles of the environment, the natural cycles.

[Sarah]: If it's part of the landscape does different causes of fire create different fire behavior for instance a lightning strike versus someone chucking a cigarette butt out the window

[David]: It's not necessarily the cause it's more of the weather the current weather conditions so in Glenwood Canyon one single cigarette butt caused the entire canyon to go up that was several years ago whereas a lightning strike can do nothing it can just strike and smolder and then it'll just go out if you add wind to that mixture that's when things get really spicy historically like if the if a lightning strike hits there's not really a huge wind event along with it now with climate change and what have you we do have a lot of these high wind events and it becomes like red flag days for firefighters and the community i guess

[Sarah]: So, climate change. Tell me a little bit more about that.

[David]: We used to think of the summer as the fire season. Really now, fire season can be any time of the year. I mean, Marshall Fire was a perfect example. That happened on December 30th in the middle of winter when you think like, oh, there's no fire here. But it was one of those high wind days, over 100 mile per hour winds. And one little spark can cause everything to go up.

[Sarah]: So, we've talked a little bit about that wildland-urban interface. Has that interface caused fires to become more destructive, or do we just notice it more?

[David]: So many people moving to Colorado, density has gone up on the front range immensely, and folks are really just trying to find a place to be. And so if they can afford a nice house in the hills with a nice view, we're adding more fuel into those areas that are more fire prone. If we do that, then fire has plenty to go off of. If we hadn't been there, then we would probably leave it alone. Life safety is our number one priority. If there's no life safety involved, then we would approach the fire very differently.
[Sarah]: Does Boulder County, do they have partnerships? Because we can't do all that mitigation and intervention by ourselves. What kind of partnerships do we have across the county?
[David]: I can speak specifically to the Boulder County Parks and Open Space and Water Resources Wildfire Mitigation Program, specifically my realm. I know Boulder County has other resources with wildfire partners. We have other strategic partners, stakeholders, and such throughout the county. Specifically for the Ditch Corridor Program, I work plenty with the ditch companies. Each of the ditch companies has a ditch rider program. I also work with a lot of local nonprofits, everything from the St. Vrain Left Hand Water Conservancy District, Boulder Valley Longmont Conservation District, Boulder Watershed Collective, Watershed Center, you name it. There's a host of folks. One that I will give a specific shout out to is our partnership with the Boulder County Sheriff's Office, who without their community workers crew or their jail crew, I wouldn't be able to do half the work that I get done.

[Sarah]: Tell me what Water Resource Fire Mitigation Specialist does on a day-to-day basis.

[David]: I drive around a lot. I mean, the program has continually evolving. It's really less than a year old. It's in its infancy. So as I develop it, I make mistakes and I learn. Initially, I just wanted to be able to identify areas that were of highest concern. I started digging deep into the community wildfire protection plan. The CWPP, which was recently updated. With that, they identify areas of concern all throughout the county. From there, then I can just scan those areas, and that's based on prevailing weather patterns, past fire behavior. I look at the fire scars from previous fires, and I can see where they've traveled, how they've traveled. In essence, just trying to do a little bit of fire modeling without actually fire modeling to then dictate some of the decisions I make. Based on where I put my energy.

[Sarah]: I've heard a couple terms that I want you to define for me. Ditch corridor. What all is a ditch that you would be concerned with?

[David]: We have several waterways, watersheds that come out of the mountains. You know, we have obviously Boulder Creek, we have the St. Vrain. And from those major waterways, then those waterways are surrounded by agricultural property. In order to get water to those agricultural properties, these ditch companies created these ditches that would essentially feed off of those waterways. And so the ditches, which have been historically around since the 1800s, now can then divert water from those waterways into these farmers' lands. So a ditch can really, depending on its length, depending on how much water is flowing through, I mean, it can be 20, 30 feet wide, or it can be three feet wide. Many ditches have small laterals that come off of them. And so those laterals will then feed like the far corner of a farmer's plot.

[Sarah]: So, like a lateral will be like a little baby ditch off the

[David]: Bigger flow. Exactly. And so with the water group and the water resources group in Parks and Open Space, we manage a lot of that water flow. So based on different tenants and how many water rights they have or how many shares of water they have, we can open and close different head gates to allow water to flow wherever it needs to go to get the farmers the right amount of water.

[Sarah]: Who is responsible for caring for those ditches then?

[David]: A lot of that responsibility really falls on the ditch companies. They each have ditch riders or sometimes a ditch superintendent. Different ways they have them all set up. Historically, the ditch riders have mostly been focused on water conveyance. As long as the water gets to the farmers, they're happy. The unfortunate thing is that because there's water in all these ditches, plenty of things grow there and plenty of things that want to suck water up, cottonwood trees, all kinds of invasives will want to take that water away. And so as we're already in a drought, then we have this issue of like, wow, we have to take care of this. And so the ditch rider's job then is to clear these ditches for that water conveyance. And as long as the water is flowing, they're fine. But then what do they do with those spoils? Well, they ended up just putting them on the side because technically they don't own the land that is part of the ditch. They just own an easement to allow them to operate in that area.

[Sarah]: And so, when you say ditch rider, I'm imagining a person on a horse riding along. Is that where it came from historically? Are these guys on horses? Are they?

[David]: A lot of these are guys with heavy equipment. Okay. I'll be honest. I don't know necessarily the history of the term ditch rider, but when I work with these guys, or most of them are guys, I should say, they all have trucks that tow heavy equipment. And when they're working in these ditches, they will work whether with hand tools, but a lot of times they end up working with like a mini excavator, sometimes a skid steer to really move these things. If you've ever seen a dead cottonwood on the side of a ditch, you'll know that they need to have something big and heavy that'll carry it.

[Sarah]: As you said, the ditch irrigation system has been here in Boulder County from the 1850s, 1860s. So why are we now looking at them as a cause for concern?

[David]: I mean, for the longest time, the mindset has always been, we'll just clean the ditches and put them on the side. And that's historically has been okay. However, now with climate change and this really high awareness for urban conflagration of wildfires, I mean, if you look at Marshall Fire, I don't think anybody in Louisville or Superior or Lafayette would expect to lose their home to a wildfire, but it happened. They're like, oh, well, the winds come from the west. There's all this grassland. We don't have to worry about it. But based on how things, how climate is changing, we have to really rethink our mindset and our strategies here based on hotter summers, longer summers, more extreme weather patterns. With more extreme winds comes a much higher danger for fire to carry long distances away. You know, they say one tiny ember can carry up to a mile. Wow. All it takes is one ember to start one entire house on fire.

[Sarah]: So, then what is your role working with the ditch companies and working with public landholders or private landholders, I guess I should say, to kind of address some of these concerns?

[David]: I'm still trying to define my role. Again, the program is in its infancy, but really my main goal here is to build these relationships. If I can build those relationships, then I can build that trust that we can change the mindset of the folks who have historically just dumped their things, dumped the spoils on the side of the ditch. That mentality and those strategies are no longer working and they're no longer safe. Especially if you have a neighborhood that has popped up next to a ditch and now you've got a pile that's 10 feet high, 30 feet wide and just ready Granted, it's probably a nice habitat for some small creatures, but we're looking again at life safety here and along a ditch. Fortunately, I can just take care of that. And so my role, again, is to help work with the ditch companies to get rid of these and then to change the mindsets that, hey, if you're going to clear out a ditch, let me know and I can bring a roll-off dumpster so we can then take all these spoils and then just send it to the mulch yard. That way it can get recycled back into the environment.

[Sarah]: So these ditch companies, I have to imagine, are a little resistant to change. How do you deal with disagreement with that idea?

[David]: I don't know any person that is all about change. There's some level of resistance, not necessarily just ditch companies, but everybody to change. Change can be difficult and this is the way we've always done it kind of mentality takes place. But challenging part is when you stay stuck in that, in that mindset. If I can help folks realize like, hey, there's a major concern here and I am here to help support those concerns by funding your projects, by making your work easier. We are looking at launching another small program to incentivize the ditch companies to really get on board with helping keep these ditches cleaned and keeping the areas safe for the neighbors.

[Sarah]: We've talked a little bit about mitigation and getting in front of the disaster, cutting off fuel sources and what have you. Can you give me sort of the basic definition of fire mitigation?

[David]: Basically, mitigation is just like the actions you would take to help harden your home or to really increase the risk of survivability for your property, for yourself. Depending on what you call it, whether it's resilience, whether it's preparedness, it's really not about like if it's going to happen to us, it's really when it's going to happen. I was just reading this recent statistic that the Boulder County fireshed ranks in the top 5% of all the firesheds in the country for the probability of a catastrophic fire event happening.

[Sarah]: So that term hardening a property, what do you mean by hardening a property?

[David]: So home hardening can look a lot of different ways or hardening a property can look a lot of different ways. If you look at it from the zone concept of a zone, zone zero, zone one, zone two, zone zero is the first five feet. Or I think here it's zone one, two, and three. Zone one, the zone that's closest to the house, the first five feet really should have nothing flammable in that area whatsoever. Especially not juniper bush that is right underneath the window, those zones of defensible space are going to be huge. Zone two is the next 30 feet out and zone three is like up to 100 feet out. This model doesn't necessarily work in tight knit neighborhoods, but it would work if you're if you have a large property and you're looking at trying to create a defensible space. Beyond creating that defensible space, thinning out trees and such, making sure that zone one and zone two are really tight. You can create non-combustibles around the house. You have fire mesh that can go underneath areas where material would typically gather. So underneath decks or in like the crook of your roof. Areas like that are prone to have a lot of leaf litter and that dried leaf litter can really cause a lot of damage.

[Sarah]: So what are some common misconceptions about what hardening is? For instance, I've heard some people complain, well, you're controlling my landscape or that kind of thing. Is there people who are just resistant to it?

[David]: People move out into the country and they have their property and they do that because they don't want to be crowded in and they don't want to be disturbed. They just want their space, and they want to be able to do what they want. However, it's not always the case. One of the most common things I encounter with homeowners that are resistant to home hardening or that defensible space is that they have an emotional connection to trees. It's a big one and it's interesting because some people have lived here for decades and And they've watched a tree go from a sapling to a large, you know, their kids grew up swinging in that tree. There's a number of reasons why. Some people just like them for shade and privacy. Regardless, there's an attachment, an emotional attachment to trees or to their landscaping. And they don't want that disturbed, so to speak. This leads to the misconception that if I come in as a wildfire mitigation specialist, my plan is just to clear out everything, cut all the trees down and put concrete down so nothing will burn. That's not really the case. You know, that's far from the truth. I try to be very selective about how much I disturb their environment, their landscape. There's a huge landscape value for birds. If there are trees there, there's a huge value to have things on the ground where small critters can kind of zoom around. There's all kinds of wildlife. Here and you know with the Preble’s meadow jumping mouse being one of the endangered species in the county and we have one of the highest concentrations of them we don't want to disturb them we want to make sure we're stewards for them so we can help protect them and help their population grow i don't want to take away those habitats if i don't have to basically that line is drawn when there's life safety involved mostly along a ditch corridor versus a natural waterway

[Sarah]: Are there approaches to when you are looking at your landscape around your house, some good strategies for creating that landscape that's safe for your house, puts that life safety into consideration?

[David]: There's a number of like really easy, low hanging fruit that you can do as a homeowner. If you have a tree that overhangs your house, if that tree can be trimmed back a little bit so it doesn't hang over, touch the house, because if that tree catches, your house catches. If you can have a little bit of separation of your house from that tree, that would be great. You also don't want to create what are called ladder fuels. You know, if you look specifically like some of these spruce trees that grow all the way to the ground, you would ideally want to limb those up six to eight feet. And so if an ember falls at the base, then it's not going to catch the lower branches, which will then climb up and turn it into a crown fire. The low hanging fruit would be like getting a tree trim back. A really easy one is to clean off your gutters. A lot of people don't think about that. Like, oh, my gutters are fine. Some folks have those like gutter guards. If you don't and you have a big pile of leaves, especially in the fall, that's just ripe for big fire. Does

[Sarah]: Planting native species as opposed to an introduced species, would that be something to consider as well?

[David]: Oh, yeah, 100%. I mean, this landscape was really adapted for fire. And so a lot of the native species are more fire resilient versus some of the invasives that really grow big. We tell homeowners all the time, and this is a little off the topic, but like junipers, which were once like in vogue in probably like the 80s or 90s. So many people have juniper bushes everywhere in all different shapes and sizes. But those juniper bushes have these terpenes, which are oils in them that cause them to be really flammable. Not to mention the density of the actual bushes. Bush is so thick that the dead needle litter falls off of the branches, gets stuck in there. And so then you have highly flammable oils along with something that's dry that will cause small, flashy, hot fire.

[Sarah]: Does Boulder County Parks and Open Space do fire mitigation on their properties?

[David]: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we have a fire management crew that we work with in the forestry department. They are primarily in charge of the prescribed burns. They work closely with the Boulder County Sheriff's Office and their fire management team there. And so they have a large team of folks and we really have to plan for those fires and folks will submit, hey, I have a concern about this. We rely a lot on our different work groups and the folks in the field to really relate to us like, hey, what needs to be burned? Does this ditch need to be burned? Is this thing overgrown with cattails? What's going to catch on fire? Not only do we have the water resources wildfire mitigation program, but then we also have the fire management program, which is more on the forestry side. A lot of those folks end up working on the western side of the county to do all the fire mitigation up there but then they're also doing prescribed burns on all of our agricultural property as well

[Sarah]: Do you have a good resource of information for private homeowners like if if i wanted to reduce my insurance rates and do fire mitigation on my property where could i go to find out that information on how to get it done Boulder

[David]: County is home to one of the premier wildfire mitigation programs in the country. Started in 2014,  Wildfire Partners has really pioneered a lot of the wildfire mitigation resources for homeowners specifically. Different campaigns They've launched like, you know, junk your juniper fences or fuses. And they have a whole team of wildfire mitigation specialists that go out and work with homeowners. They work with HOAs. They're kind of all encompassing. Whereas my program specifically focuses along ditch corridors. Their program really focuses more on community mitigation. If you are one person in a neighborhood and you do all the mitigation, but no one else does, it's still a problem. And so we really have to get our neighbors and our friends on board with doing the mitigation in order for it to be more effective.

[Sarah]: This mitigation process for a private landowner or house owner or what have you, it sounds like it could be a little pricey because I've had a tree taken out of my backyard. It was not cheap. Are there programs that can support someone who wants to do that but may not have the funding?

[David]: That's probably the number one reason why a lot of folks don't do it. It's not because they're lazy or they don't want to. It's that it is really cost prohibitive. Taking a tree down in your yard is not cheap. I know for a fact that the city of Boulder has, through the fire department, they have a mitigation or preparedness program. Through that program, they offer up to $1,000 for homeowners within the city limits of Boulder to do wildfire mitigation work. There should be a link on the bouldercolorado.gov website. In addition to that, Wildfire Partners offers a $500 rebate for homeowners throughout Boulder County to do any kind of mitigation work. And you just have to submit your receipts along with an application and you're good to go. Wildfire Partners also has the Strategic Fuels Mitigation Grant, which they open up twice a year. And that's for kind of larger entities to do more of a larger scale project for mitigation work. And then lastly, if you're one to file your own taxes, I believe there's a $2,000 or $2,500 credit you can get on your taxes, on your state taxes, if you do mitigation work. There is support there from the government, local and state governments, to help folks get over that boundary. Well,

[Sarah]: I really appreciate your time today, David. Thank you so much.

[David]: Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

[Sarah]: Thank you so much for tuning into this episode. We really want to thank Longmont Public Media for allowing us to use their space. And I want to invite you to follow Voices of Open Space on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, and wherever you get your favorite podcasts.