Park Bench Banter - Eva Lark with Bruno Pachuca-Osornio (Episode 24) Transcript

Welcome to Boulder County's Forces of Open Space. I'm your host, Eva Lark, and today we have our new episode of Park Bench Banter, where we go behind the scenes and learn what park employees do to make our properties open and inclusive for all. I'm really excited to have Bruno as our guest today. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you. I would love if you could start off by introducing yourself, your name, your title. What is it you do for Parks and Open Space? 

My name is Bruno Pachuca. My full name, it's on the site, it's Christopher Bruno Pachuca Osorio. And what I do is I am a graphic designer. That's what I've done my whole life. And so I'm a science specialist assistant at Parks and Open Space. So I work on all of the signs, everything from designing, fabricating, maintaining, and installing all of the signs. So we call this park bench banter because we're pretending that we're out on a actual park bench. So today I want you to kind of paint a picture for our listeners. What park bench would you pick for us to be sitting to have this conversation instead of being in the studio? It could be a real park bench or a park property that you wish there was a park bench at that location. I have a new favorite one. Okay. This one is actually on Walker down by the creek as you either come down from the stairs from Crescent Meadows or if you're coming from Ethel Herald going up the stairs. Right before the stairs, because the stairs I don't like as much, but right before the stairs, there's that little waterfall. But the water there, just sitting there on that bench and enjoying the fresh, cool air and the sound of the water, it's awesome. I love that. That sounds like a great place to be on a summer day. It is. Yeah. How often do you get to be at that spot specifically? 

The past two months I've been there quite a, quite a bit. And this past month I think I've been there specifically, uh, maybe four times this month. So that's a lot in a month to be there. 

Yeah. No wonder it's your new favorite one since you're spending some quality time there. 

Yeah. And it's really nice. Yeah. So how long have you been in this role with Boulder County? 

I'm coming up on two years, I just realized. So 2024, September was when I started. So yeah, two years. 

And what drew you to this job? You said that you've done graphic design in the past and obviously you get to use some of those skills probably in this job, but was there other aspects of the job that you're like, I'm gonna apply for that? 

The job was a surprise. My wife got an email about the job, and I was on the verge of maybe getting another job. I was kind of looking around. And originally, I was actually thinking about joining the railroad and becoming an engineer and driving trains. That sounds fun. But then this came up and I also wanted something that was more physical for me that I would be able to do more outdoor work. And this is it was the best of both worlds. It's what I do, signs, graphic design, but also a lot of walking, hiking and just physical labor. And I yeah, I got the job by a miracle. And I'm here and I'm it's probably the most fun I've had at a job probably ever. 

Wow, that's amazing. Sounds like you found like a perfect fit. 

Yeah. So many people probably don't realize that we actually have a sign shop at Parks and Open Space. Why would we need one? How does your work play in that larger sign shop? 

This was the first time I'd heard that other places don't have a sign shop. And you can tell. I'd say we need one because of, for that reason, so that there's uniform signs across the entire park. So that it's sometimes when it's a wild, wild west in the sign world, everyone does what they want. Nothing is uniform. And it's nice to have people that, know the industry and know graphic design. They know how signs work. And I've gotten a lot of compliments on the parks signs since I started. I tell people what I do. And many occasions now people tell me, oh my gosh, you guys have the nicest, the best signs. Like I'm so jealous. You guys have... And so I think it brings a lot of, it's one of the first things that people see when they visit, the public visits our parks. The sign is like, I mean, there's so much that goes on, but it's like the icing on the cake, I would say, the signs. Do you think that most of the signs that you're fabricating and installing, are they regulatory signs or are they park information? Is it a mixture? 

Sure. It is a combination of, yeah, I would say the least amount that we have that I make are warning signs, the yellow ones, which the last one I did was a warning sign for bikes not to go down the stairs. You got to carry your bike. But outside of that, I'd say I think it's almost half-half between. No, there's more wayfinding signs and ID marking signs than regulatory. But there are quite a bit of regulatory signs that go up because people need to know what they can and can't do. 

You mentioned this yellow sign. Is there a color schematic for our signs? 

Yeah. Yeah, so we have a sign manual that everything has to adhere to. So yellow, any yellow sign is a warning sign. Any green sign is a wayfinding sign. And any brown sign is a regulatory sign. And then what other sign might there be? 

That's pretty much it. Maybe there might be a white sign. But that's usually informational, like stuff that we don't, it's more rare. 

And are you also maintaining those kiosk signs that you see at the trailhead? 

We do. We maintain the kiosk signs. 

Yeah, usually what has to get done at the kiosk is the screws come loose. And so we just put new screws on them. But yeah, we maintain all those as well. 

So you're not only fabricating new signs, putting them up, but you're also maintaining the backlog kind of of maintenance on making sure that they're readable and in the right spot. 

Correct. Yep. Nice. So walk us through a typical day. What's a typical work day for you, Bruno? 

Yeah. Well, first I wake up. I get to work and usually I make me myself. It's I make around. I'll walk around and see who's there. See who's not there. I'll go to the sign, the sign inventory, just clean up, maybe sweep some dust or trash or whatever out of it because it's in the carpentry area. So a lot of dust accumulates on the signs down there. So I have this little tiny fan. I just wave everything off so it doesn't get too dusty while everything sits there. And then I'll go upstairs. I'll check my emails. Right now, Ian, our seasonal, he's awesome. And I'll check in with him, see what we got going on, try to make a plan. Talk to Mary, our boss, and then we come up with a plan, the three of us, and we head out. Usually go downstairs, get the truck, get the truck ready, fill the jug up with water, tons of water all the time. You need water. Hydrate. And then get all the tools, get the signs, get everything that we need, head to wherever we're going and get to work. And we use a cartograph to put in all of our information in it. And, yeah, it's just a bunch of digging holes and baking in the sun and drinking water, taking breaks. And then by the time we're finished, we head back and head home, and then tomorrow do it all over again. But you get to go to different locations each day or you kind of on one project at a time? 

Right now we're doing big projects at a time because there's such a backlog of signs. Part of the reason I was brought on was because we're making all of the signs bilingual. And so there's a lot of signs. 

Yeah. And we're not close to even a quarter of the way there. So right now we have big projects. Right now we've been working on Walker. We also have done Rabbit Mountain. We're about to start Mud Lake and Batasso. So it's project by project. And if something else comes up that is necessary, then we'll go there instead for the time. But yeah, I get to travel quite a bit around the whole county. 

Well that's great, 'cause there are so many parks spread out from up in the foothills to out on the plains. With your, sounds like the properties you've worked on so far are mostly kind of foothills properties, is that true? Or are you sometimes, have you done some projects on the plains too? 

Mostly foothills, we did Lagerman and Open Sky, that was a big project earlier this year. I would say 75% foothills, 25% plains. So if someone would want to have your job, obviously, you're like, it's mine. And you kind of talked about like your background is... Graphic design, but probably people could come into this similar career in many different paths. Do you feel like your path to this job was kind of straight? Like, I'm going to do graphic design and that may look like signs, but you mentioned earlier, like jumping to a new career, like railroads. 

Where did you see your career path to get where you are today? 

I don't think anything happened the way I planned it to, no. I wanted to be a graphic designer for a cool company like Audi or Nike. That didn't happen. I got into graphic design thinking I was going to be different than my dad. And, you know, I was like, we do this. I'm going to go off and do this. And then I realized later on that my entire family, all of my uncles, and I mean all of them, all seven of them in Mexico, they all are graphic designers and sign makers. And that's what we did. I watched my dad make signs since I was little. I realized like, oh my gosh, what am I, how did I think I got into sign, like I did graphic design, I thought I was going to work with some big, cool company. And I ended up being a sign maker and I love it. Like it's, it's who I am. But from there I went to college and then I worked in a family business for just over a decade, like legitimately, because I mean, it's a family business. So, you know, middle school was work. Summertime was work. And then from there I actually worked for a church for about 11 years or so. And I got that job because of my graphic design background. So I did a lot of promotional stuff for them. And then I started doing videos and short videos weekly for them. And I like that job. That was a pretty fun job. And I got to play drums a lot, which that I miss. I really do miss playing the drums. But then from that, when I got this job, it kind of just... I didn't like graphic design anymore because I felt I wanted freedom in my art. And when you go into the industry, you realize there's zero freedom, almost no freedom. And someone is looking over your shoulder, almost directing what you're doing. Like you're not you don't really get much freedom. And I grew to despise graphic design for a long time. But I got really good at it. And now all this time later, I have a job that I love. And I actually really like the sign manual. I think it's great. It serves the purpose really well. And I really enjoy what I'm doing now. So full circle, I would say... If you want to specifically ask about this job. Or any job in parks. Oh, I don't know how many people do what they went to college for. But I would say if you have a passion for it, go for it. I mean, there's people that have been seasonals there for a long time. I mean, I was lucky enough to get a job right off the bat, but that's not everyone's. A lot of seasonals will be recurring seasonals, and then finally they land a job. And I would just say if you just, it's a combination of any job. It's a combination of hard, hard, hard work. And the opportunity. Because opportunities will come. But if you're not ready for it, if you haven't been working, then the opportunity will still come and you won't be ready for it. So that's where those two paths cross. You work super hard, even though you don't see always why. And then the opportunity shows up. And that's when then you're ready. So that's kind of what happened to me. Like I just opportunity came up and I was ready. I was ready for it. And here I am. 

Well, speaking of drumming, I know recently we had a special learning opportunity where our staff got to go to the historic Caribou recording studio. Yeah. And you got to play drums. I did. That was awesome. The funny thing about that is that it was within the same month that I started work. So it was on that September 2024. And when I got here, Every other job I've ever had, I've been, not by my choice, it's just thrust upon me that I end up becoming high up in leadership and all these responsibilities placed on me, and I can't say no to it. And so when I got this job, I wanted to keep a low profile and keep my head down, just do my job, no response. And then all of a sudden, we go to the Caribou Ranch, to that recording studio, and i we i i looked it up i was like oh my gosh this place is amazing there's so many legendary musicians that have been through here so they're giving us a tour and there's nothing there's nothing there because at one point it burned down and so there's there isn't really anything there except the structure the frame of the building and then we go into the one of the main recording the live recording studios and there's a drum set there and i was like I can't, I can't say no. I have to. Your secret was out. 

Yeah. And I was like, I don't care. I have to play. And so I did. I got on, on the set and, uh, I, I played for a bit and, um, I think Poria had me play happy birthday for Montserrat at the time. Um, But then, yeah, it was in front of everyone. It was a little bit nerve-wracking because I just wanted to jam out on the drum set, but I'm not, I'm really good with other musicians. I'm not really a soloist. And so here I am, just me on the drums. But that was awesome. That was such a crazy experience to have done that. I don't know how many people can say they've done that, but that was amazing. Yeah, you're in the elite company now with some of the best musicians that our country has had. And especially, you know, as far as Boulder County or Colorado, what a famous place for recording so many albums, artists and different types of artists. Yeah. So, yeah, that's some bragging rights for you. 

Yeah. The thing that we were told was I can't put anything on Instagram or no social media. So I can say it, but I can't post it. Well, now the world knows. Yeah, now everyone will know. Yeah, Bruno played at the Cavalry Ranch. Yeah. I'm so glad that we get to work together, even though I'm not in the field with you that often, I do get to see you sometimes on that circular path you make through the building or in the parking lot. And I get to see your product because as an education outreach person, my team is on the trail. We're leading programs. So seeing those signs out there and hearing the public give feedback on them I'm always reminded about how important it is for us to convey public safety, regulations, but also like wayfinding signs or education signs. So I see a lot of ways our mind and your work at least intersect in that way of like reaching the people, our users. 

Yeah. I mean, and that's a big thing for me. I'm connected to, the reason I love sign making so much is because a sign is always exactly, a sign points to something else. That's what the sign is for. And to connect to what you're saying, educational or just outreach, Now, these past two months, I've ran into a few people that I hear them speaking Spanish. And so I'll ask them, hey, did you notice the bilingual sign? And I've gotten really good feedback. So that's been cool, too, to get people like one family local, two families from out of town that just visit every now and then. And yeah, they they loved it. They thought it was great that they could invite people that wouldn't know the English and they could still follow the trails. That's cool. 

Yeah, I think it kind of goes back to like the idea of our work becoming a more, creating a more welcoming, inclusive environment for anybody that's on the trail. And a lot of what you do really is, those signs like you said, are the first thing they see. They don't often see a person on the trail or a park employee, but they see that. And even having that bilingual in Spanish or just having it written really clearly so that people understand, that's so important to make sure that people feel like it's a place for them. So you're talking about these big projects and you get to work around different parks. Does your work change by the season or are you still out there in the summer, in the depths or winter, in the rainy season? Or is there some cycle through your year by weather or season? Rain or snow or shine. No, I'm just kidding. You're like the post office. You're delivering. You know what? It does change. And with my department, there's also a lot of work that I can do indoors, whether it's inventory or creating a stock of chamfered wood. So we'll get the wood in, but it's not ready to, it's not chamfered. It's not pretty yet. So we'll get it, we'll work out or make signs. There's signs that need to be made. So there's a lot of inside work that I can do. I just recently, it was way too hot to be outside. Well, my boss told me she, for my safety, I would have went outside, but she said, no, no, no, you stay inside. I don't want you to get sick or heat stroke. And so, yeah, there's work that I can do inside still. So there's, it's quite a, it's, it's a really good balance between both outside and inside in the sign shop. Yeah, that's, I feel like often people have one or the other, but it sounds like your position really lets you kind of get to do both, which is unique. Even within parks, you're either like admin at the desk all day or you're in the field all day, but a lot of people don't get the sweet spot, it sounds like maybe you have, of doing both. Yeah, I didn't realize that, and you're right, and I'm really glad. So you mentioned that you have a seasonal that you work with and you also have a supervisor, Mary. Do you work with other people in the department or are those kind of the two touch points that you really like working with mostly? 

Those are the two people I work with the most. It's a tiny department. The sign shop is just Mary's our supervisor. I'm the full-time staff and Ian's our seasonal. And so between the three of us, We get pretty much everything finished that we need to finish. But we do work with the grounds guys quite a bit. I've worked with Darren and Chase and Casey, Caleb, all those guys down there. Bree, can't forget Bree. I did not forget you, Bree. They're great. And I've worked with, yeah, quite a few other people here and there with Poria. I mean, we went out and we're able to he was showing me how to use a drone and we recorded the farmer with a machine. What is it like tilling the ground? I mean, I work with a few other people on other projects, and I think a challenge for me, not a challenge, I probably could and should invite other people to come work with us to see what we do. But, yeah, I've worked with, who else have I worked with? I said about the Bring Your Kid to Work Day. I was working with Erica on that with a whole other team. That was a fun day. You made signs with the kids who came. 

Yeah, that was fun. I still have those at home with my children. Oh, that's awesome. 

Is there anything surprising about your job that you, you know, before you took it, you're like, oh, I didn't realize I was going to do this. You know what? I was, when I interviewed and they had me do that physical test, they had me do things that I was like, am I really going to be doing this? Like they had me pull this weight and it got increasingly like so much weight. And then they had me just digging in sand inside of a bucket for like an hour. It was a long time, maybe four to five minutes. I don't know. But, yeah, they had me digging in that bucket forever. And it's so much worse. Yeah, the physical part of this job is a lot, like way more than I thought it was going to be. But I enjoy it. The digging, the hiking, many of the places that we like, if we're at a trailhead, then we can use a machine like the little MT-100 that we're renting, which is great. But if we're not at the trailhead necessarily, we have to hike quite a ways somewhere. Like that staircase, you know, walker, you can't get the empty there. So you have to get as close as you can. But still, there's so much walking. And so it's walking with the tools, with the sign, in a backpack, with the post, with the postal digger, or maybe not the postal, but a shovel and a rock bar. And so it's heavy. It's a lot more physical than I thought it was going to be. And digging holes, I always wondered why people got caught. I mean, maybe take this out, but I always wondered how do people, if they kill someone, they don't bury a body six feet deep. Now I know why. It's hard. Digging holes is hard. Like digging two feet for a tiny post is so much work. So now I get it, you know. Well, especially in Colorado, because we have such a hard, rocky ground. Yeah. And even, yeah, I feel like being on the East Coast, you can dig six foot holes, but here. Yeah, no. You're going to hit a rock, a boulder. Something that you're probably not expecting and then or even that sediment that like it's so muddy it's almost worse than rocks you're chipping out that stuff away hard with a rock bar and it just chips off in little tiny centimeters of it's it's almost worse than the rocks All right, well, we have some fun games to play. We're hanging out on the park bench. I'm going to do some rapid fire, and you just pick the thing that comes to your mind first, okay? All right, we're on the park bench, hanging out, looking at the little, hearing the waterfall at Walker. What do you have, coffee or tea? Coffee, black. What's the best animal sighting you've had on the job? Bear. Ooh, where? Niwot, between the houses. Most people probably were going to think, you know, up in the foothills at Walker, but in a residential area. Second best, fox. But that bear startled me. We startled each other and ran away from each other. I love that. You both equally were kind of surprised. Yes. What's the essential piece of work gear that you're always going to have on you when you're in the field? The rock bar. To get rid of those boulders that you encounter? Yeah. You can't dig without a rock bar around here. You just can't. 

What's your favorite flower or plant tree? Flower? I think hydrangea. Tree? Weeping willow. Oh, those are beautiful. When they're huge and, yeah, they're awesome. 

Who's your favorite person to take on the trail? Not at work, but just ever. Ever. Oh, Everett, my brother. Is he a hiker? He's a hiker, yeah. Nice. So that's something you've bonded over in the past, hiking together? Yeah. Yeah. I need to go hike with him again. It's a good reminder. Yeah. 

What's your favorite snack that you're going to take out there? Oranges. They pack pretty well, too. Or actually cuties, little oranges, but still. They're sweeter. Yeah. So you just said that you like hiking. Are there any other activities you like to do in parks or outside? It could be anything from hiking, photography, grilling. Oh, anything outdoors? Mm-hmm. Everything you just said. I like hiking. I like playing soccer. I like grilling and photography. I really enjoy photography a lot. And I like taking my girls out for walks specifically because they're just the everything is new to them. And so the world isn't old or they're not jaded yet. Yeah. And so it's cool seeing the world through their eyes. Yeah, I think that's one of the best parts of parenthood is that you get to kind of see it all again. Yeah. 

Do you take them to our Boulder County Parks open space properties? 

I have. When our schedules allow for it, I do, and they love it. And they're so little now, it's more work for me. 

Yeah, you got to pack all the things and make sure that it's not just you out there needing a water bottle. It's like. And I make sure I go to wherever there's a bathroom because all of a sudden diaper change or whatever. Yeah. You don't want to be somewhere where there's no bathroom.

Yeah, absolutely. All right. We're going to play another little game. That was our rapid fire. This is, I'm a big basketball fan, women's basketball. So we're going to play a game called start bench cut. Start meaning they're on the field first. They're your favorite bench reserved. You're not going to cut it. Cutting mean it's gone. Yeah. All right. Ready? And we're going to start with digital art, creating traditional art like drawing or painting or photography.

Oh, man. Trying to stump you here. 

Yeah, because I am a digital artist. But if one had to be gone forever, which one are you cutting? Which one are you going to be doing the most? And the other one you could do occasionally. It's on the bench. This is one of the toughest questions. I tried to pick a good one. That was a really good one. Okay. Okay. If I have to, let's say nothing matters. Like my job doesn't depend. 

Exactly. Right now it would be like, well, digital has to win, but if it didn't matter, no job, you know, the issues, um, I think I would start, uh, I would start photography. And then I would, oh my god, I would bench. They're all this so good. I would, I would bench digital and cut the fine arts and that hurts to say. I always try to pick like a really hard one. So that was a good question. How long have you been doing photography? 

I mean, in high school, I had a photography class that I really loved, and I had one of those old black and white, the Pentax, the actual film. Yeah. And I did that for a while out of high school. And when I started graphic design, I used photography a lot in my work initially. And then I stopped after I got out of college. I would only really use photography – I I it wasn't my photography. That's the thing for such a long time. That stage of my artistic life was just not fun. And then I just did away with everything and all my creativity went into music for about 15 years or so. And then one day I wanted to get back into photography. And I actually, my dad and I actually bonded over an old action figure that he was looking for. And I was trying to help him find. And then I started collecting action figures. And then I found the very small niche world of action figure photography. And so then I went out and I wanted a camera anyway. So I got the best one I could. And I started doing action figure photography for a few years, but I got back into taking pictures after that. 

I've seen some action figures in your work cubicle. 

Yeah. And now I know that they're, are they part of your photo shoots? 

Um, not those ones. 

Not, not now, but I haven't done it in a while. 

Yeah. I haven't even have an Instagram account, but yeah, I haven't touched it in like two years or so. 

Yeah. Yeah. But what a fun, um, creative outlet to be able to do. 

Yeah. Super fun. Super nerdy, but very fun. Yeah, I love that. Okay, next start bench cut. 

Okay. We're going to do some park properties. And we'll start on the plains first. We'll do Carolyn Holmberg Preserve, Twin Lakes, Pella Crossing. Okay, cut Twin Lakes. Okay. Because a dog almost bit me there. There are a lot of dogs there. And it just smells funny there. And there's a lot of mosquitoes. I don't like digging there. So I like it. But out of those three, yeah, Twin Lakes. And then you said Pella and... Carolyn Holmberg. 

Carolyn, oh. Start Carolyn and bench Pella. 

Why bench Pella?

The only reason is because I'm more familiar with Carolyn Holmberg. And I've been there many times to see the eagles. They have that little eagle area where you can watch it from. I've taken pictures of the eagles there. And I've done the whole loop, the whole trailer a few times. And it's nice. It's a nice, simple. That's why I've taken my girls there quite a bit. Nice. Yeah. So you get some good memories. Yeah. That's pretty much the only reason, really. Pella is nice. I hear there's beavers there. I haven't seen them yet. I've seen a lot of activity of beavers there. Yeah? Yeah. You can see some reset chewing on the logs. Oh, that's what I want to see. They're really active there. Yeah. That's what I want to see is the beavers. All right, last one, start bench cut. We're going to do a battle of the ranches. So these are all properties that we acquired that were ranging properties before. So Walker Ranch versus Heil Ranch versus Hall Ranch. Oh, man, those are tough. Oh, man, these are good questions. Picking these against each other. I like Walker a lot. Well, we're sitting on the park bench at Walker, so you got to put Walker first. I think I like Walker because it's I think it has the most I've done the whole I've been around the whole trail now. Not I haven't done the whole loop in one shot. I've just I think I've been on the whole trail through work. So going there, doing this part, coming back. And it has the most diverse landscape. It has very hot, no trees, no shade, plainy area. It also has a bunch of shaded tree areas. It has a lot of altitude elevation and drop. It has the stairs. It has a mini waterfall creek. And it's huge. It's just a big place. And the Walker Ranch is pretty nice, too, the actual ranch. And then the other two, so that one I would start. And then the other two, Hall and Heil. Is Heil the one with the antelope? What is the antelope trail? No, what is it? Heil has the schoolhouse loop, the old schoolhouse, the lichen loop, the Wapiti trailhead. Oh, that's what I'm thinking of. Yeah. Oh, that's a nice trailhead too. That really pretty valley. Yeah. It's got the old train cars in it. And Hall is over by Lyons. Yeah. And it has Antelope. And then those are tough. Those are really those are both good. Yeah. Very similar to in some ways. They're similar. I think Hall. I like Hall better. But that's a tough one, too. Yeah. Hall is huge. And I've been, I was working there at Hall once, and then this enormous herd of elk walked in front of me while I was working there. Yeah. Yeah. And I was surprised they didn't get scared by me. I was using a hammer drill at the time. And they walked right by me. They walked right past me. And, man, there's just so many of them. I just kind of stood there and watched them. It was a cool thing to see them just all of these elk just walk right by me. Pretty cool. Yeah, you think of elk like in Estes Park or, but Hall, Heil, these are great places. Rabbit Mountain are really great places to see. It's probably one of the best places for us to see, unless you're going up to Nederland. It's kind of closer to Boulder, Longmont, much closer to town for those that live not up in the mountains to see like these large elk herds. Yeah. Well, we're going to end here on paint a picture of a perfect day. What time of year is it? And what are you going to do at work? 

If it's a time of year, probably be the spring while it's still cool out, but also all the new animals are coming out. Yeah. Babies. Yeah, the babies. The wildflowers. Yeah. Yeah, just when everything is blooming, that's probably the nicest. And the weather is great. So there and then where I'm at, I would want to be right now, I think I'd want to. Probably Batasso. That's such a nice, a beautiful landscape. And there's baby fox there in the springtime. 

Nice. Is that where you saw your fox? 

No, actually the fox I saw at Bald Mountain. That was pretty cool. And I've seen the fox a few times, even at Left Hand Valley Grange. I was working there and the fox just kind of trotted along, looked over, kind of nodded to me and Bree and then just kept walking off. They're one of my favorites, I think, because they are often... They'll get kind of close to you, but they're just like doing their thing. Yeah. And I really love watching them hunt in the winter. I don't know if you've ever seen that where they do this thing and they pounce. Oh, okay. To break through the snow. And I got to see that on one of our properties this winter. And I was just like, oh, I could just sit here forever and watch this. It's very calming about it. 

Are foxes feline or canine? 

Um, well, depending if they're red or gray foxes. 

What? Really? Yeah. Oh, one's more related to felines. One's more related to canines. What? I didn't know that. I know they kind of like, uh, what do they call that? Like convergent evolution. Oh, um, I've always, well, cool. That's a cool answer. I didn't even know that. That's awesome. Well, Bruno, it's been great getting to learn about what you do for Boulder County Parks and Open Space, and now for all of the folks that are tuning in, when they're out at the park and they see those signs right there, as soon as they get out of the car, they have, they got to know the guy behind the sign. You know, who got to put it in, fabricate it. I think that's kind of part of this podcast is fun is that we're kind of pulling back the curtain and being like, hey, everything you see out there is someone touching that. There's someone, creativity that's bringing that to work. So thanks so much for all you do. Thank you for having me. And thank you for everything. Thank you both for everything that you do for us. And this is awesome. I'm just happy. I'm glad to be a part of the team, really. I also want to thank Long White Public Media for hosting us. Please listen to our podcast, subscribe wherever you like to listen to podcasts, and we'll catch you next time on the park bench.